What part of “when Germany was still weak” do you not understand?

Sauron

Oh dear….

what part of “oh no it wasnt ” do you not understand…

OR do you reckon that you know better than Dowding?

might i suggest that you read Robert Wright’s excellant ” Dowding and the BOB “…or check out the following ;

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/hugh_dowding.htm

“I’ve dealt politically and economically with Iran and NK. That just leaves Syria, who can do whatever they want as I’m out of the Middle East.”

doesnt Iran count as being “in” the ME?

“Time for a change. Really, what is the problem? Our nose will be out of Europe’s business entirely, and out of the mess in the Middle East. We won’t be all over the world imposing anything through force unless we are directly attacked. Where’s the real problem here? “

sounds good i have to admit.( apart from ? about Iran above ) !

“Unless I can get Rods From God to work…”

Nukes arnt very discrimating…….i would wait for the rods if i were you!

Seriously though what level of attack could justify a nuke even a small one?

“That’s part of cutting off Israel and getting out of the Middle East. They’d be far more likely to forget about us if we’re not over there in their business. If they come over here and start something when we have clearly left them to their own devices, then they can be dealt with completely legitimately. Let’s see the rest of the world have a problem with that.

”

think you will find that people have long memories …….and some are not quick to forgive and forget.and anyway isnt this just leaving the mess created by America’s Foreign policy for the rest of us to clear up??

hang on….havent we been here before somewhere!!! 😀

Hey i have room…as i rethink the design of my unbuilt garage!!!!

jokes apart sounds promising doesnt it? the guy loves the original the way a lot of us do!!

” ( a fav tactic of Bu****es !) 2

and just in case anyone is wondering….it was ” Bush ites” or Bush lovers if that will get past the bleepers!!!

Hurrifan

Talk about being defensive and offensive at the same time!

The only other comments I am inclined to make is to say yes, the UK and France with help from others like Belgium, the Netherlands, Poland and then Czechosiovakia could have stopped Hitler if they had acted jointly when Germany was still weak. Instead they did nothing until it was too late and Hitler was able to pick them off one by one.

There is currently another war brewing and we all know who the enemy is and smart ass comments will not defeat them. Maybe enough of Europe and others will clue in eventually. At the moment NATO can’t even raise another 2500 solders for Afghanistan and the excuses are flying. I understand one NATO member says it’s military isn’t trained for combat so they can’t help. 🙁

Sauron

It is unfortunate that the truth sometimes hurts or is found to be offensive to those who would prefer not to hear it.

but lets have a bit of realism here please….

Limited numbers of French Char b’s and Britian’s early Matilda’s against the
PzKpfw III or IV? should read II & III…i think, several missing books prevent certainty!

Lysander’s and Battles as close air support as opposed to the JU 87?

Belguims early two bladed Hurricane mk1’s or Hollands Fokker D-XXI’s
against the ME109D or E ?should read ” B ” C ” & ” D”…

Britians Blenheims and Battles on daylight raids alongside France’s Potez
taking on swarms of 109’s & 110’s escorted by Hurri 1’s & MS 406’s ?

and what apart from a demonstration of supreme courage could the Czech’s
B534 or MB 210 have contributed? their tank corp might have been usefull
but in what numbers?

Poland’s PLZ 11 or 37 fought a brave fight but werent in the ball park in
reality….and Calvary against tanks and machine guns?

and arnt you ignoring something fairly obvious? France Belguim Holland and the Uk had the chance to co operate but it didnt do much good did it even with 2 more years to prepare ? Just how did you expect the armed forces of Czechoslovakia & Poland to act in conjunction with the rest ??? bit far apart dont you think?

At least there was some chance to do something to improve the Uk’s defense thanks in large to one Brilliant and under recognised man..Hugh Dowding.

So in conclusion appeasement is a good idea….sometimes.

diplomacy and seeing both sides of a story beats every other option, unfortunately it would appear to be too late!

[QUOTE=SOC]
“All-seeing and all-dancing? Are you implying that we have in fact located Osama? 😀 “

he is prob working in some government agency….

http://usinfo.state.gov/is/Archive_Index/Ali_Mohamed.html

one hell of a security check…. :dev2:

“We’re already welcome in Russia, China, and India for the most part, all I’d need really is to realign my foreign policies and extend the olive branch to them, as well as NK and Iran. I’d go so far as to assist the latter two in nuclear power plant development under the condition that I get to monitor their activity so as to ensure any material that might be weapons grade is identified so they can’t use it against me (or I’ll know where it came from).”

more world policeman complexes…….

and dealing with the “Evil axis” ????

“Hence “if I was in charge”. “

what a wonderful world it would be……………….YIKES!!!

“The point is that with the right relationships with those nations I won’t have to be bombing anyway. I’ll be out of the Middle East and no longer supporting Israel, so Arabs will have no reason to have a beef with me. I won’t recognize Taiwan and won’t be in South Korea or Japan anymore, so the NKeans and Chinese won’t have a beef with me. I won’t oppose outsourcing and will not have a relationship with Pakistan so India will be pleased.”

What about those all important alliances that were deemed to be soo important and a matter of honour?

” I’m not going to be militant or actively bombing anyone. But if I am attacked, I will strike back within 30 minutes. “

nuke strikes again???

” Besides, who’s really left that might get irritated enough to try something? Iran, NK, China, Russia? Nope. The Arab community? Probably not once I actually cease all support of Israel and get out of the Gulf. Anyone not on my new friends list is going to invariably get irritated at some point though, after I fully encrypt access to our GPS network and only provide the access codes to allied states.”

ahhh but……….

What happens to all the bad feeling /hatred that your predecessor presidents (forgive the grammer) has caused..after all as we have seen it doesnt have to be a nation that can take exception…OBL isnt a sovereign state….AQ doesnt have a capital to be flattened….neither need much help to cause mayhem and death….YOU CANT KILL AN IDEA THAT EASILY…and they dont forget easily!!!!

[QUOTE=Sauron]

“Perhaps I should not have used appeaser because that word reminds us all of a period in European history that most europeans are ashamed of and ironically led to the current view that most europeans currently have about the U.S. I guess ironic is the proper term due to the fact that friends have become the enemy and the enemy friends. You know… lets just forget about the U.S. role in WW2 and the cold war because the U.S. is a rouge nation and the biggest threat to world pease, etc, etc….”

Enemies?????

once again we seem to have a persecution complex evident….is criticism not allowed, is another point of view not permitted….Though it has to be said that the US Administration is now ACTING like a rogue nation at times and i think you will find that even the American Congress is starting to think that way…But then maybe Colin Powell is another secret pinko commie ??

“Given your comments about PM Chamberlin I suggest his actions of appeasing Hitler did as much or more for the German military not to mention what it ment for all those that he sold out.”

and do you honestly think that the UK or France could have defended themselves…..

with biplanes? obsulete/unusable tanks? come on…Hitler didnt get that much extra equipement in that short time but by god the RAF certainly did!!!

“You comment that “in comparison to Bush’s oil fuelled crusades of late, WW2 was a just war and had to be fought” is interesting. It suggests that your wars are justifiable requiring everyone, including and especially Americans, to come to your aid, but that U.S. wars are just for oil even though the oil goes mainly to others as in Europe and Japan, etc. “

so America came into WW2 because…..?

do you dare compare that maniac Hitler to Saddam?

America came fully into WW2 because they were attacked…they declared War on Germany because of its allegiance to Japan and because it was the RIGHT thing to do!!! It wasnt anything to do with europe crying to america for help…at least THAT president had some decency in his soul!!!!

“I agree with your comment that “No one in their right mind would appease terrorists” but that is exactly what is happening in the west including in the U.S. and Canada. All you have to do is review the reaction governments have to most of the terrorist attacks and plots. The police and civil protection forces do a good job but the governments bend over to the ethnic communities and groups that harbour and nurture the terrorists. “

sounds like a recipe for etnic cleansing?

or what is your solution?

“In some cases, as in Spain, the government changes it’s foreign policy. In the U.S. the Democrate and their left-wing friends say it’s not fair to monitor terrorist telephone calls. (Is it also ironic when left wing groups rush to the defense of religious fanatics?)”

The government changed it’s Foreign policy???

The pro Bush Government were defeated at the election because they LIED
( a fav tactic of Bu****es !) to the PEOPLE and tried to claim internal terrorists set the train bombs…..the PEOPLE used their votes to answer the lie !!!!!!

So it was a bit more than a change of FP …old son!!! the PEOPLE decided…its known as democracy, proper democracy not the laughable immitation that passes for same in the US !!!!!

“Finally, regarding your suggestion that “by marching into Iraq, Bush has fuelled the extremists cause and ignited a war that he has no possible chance of winning.” So resistance is futile! Our enemies will hate us more! We have no chance of winning! Did they hate us less before they attacked on 9/11? Did they hate the Austrialian tourists in Bali before Oz joined the invasion of Iraq?”

ohhhh now come on…..

You have got to be joking!!!! do you seriously think that the US led invasion of Iraq DIDNT drive more people into the arms of the Terrorists??? ever heard of ABUGRAD? as if Guantanamo wasnt bad enough…and then there are the thousands of innocent deaths, the beatings, the murders and rapes….or are all of these just more leftist rantings? …and from a Capitalist too!!!!

YES America was hated by some due to previous heavy handed American foreign policy( policy??) and a blindness to the reality of the world in which we live…. but the actions of a questionably elected President have made this problem many times worse..

Thanks to this anyone in the world is a ” legit “target to these mindless terrorists..mind you they have learned from a good teacher, the ” great satan “( their words not mine!) itself isnt above using terror tactics itself …is it ?

On the subject of appeasement; it is always worth remembering that it was history’s ‘arch appeaser’ Neville Chamberlin who declared war on Hitler in 1939.

When he returned from Munich in 1938 he knew war was comming, why else do you think his government immeadiatley increased military spending? and started looking a procuring weapons from the USA? He knew also that if they fought a war in 1938 we would probably loose (they did not know Hitler probably would have backed down) and when he and Halifax dithered about declaring war in ’39 it appears to have been for two reasons ensuring that France would come on board (which they almost certainly wouldn’t have done in 1938) and deciding whether or not delaying the out break of war would give more time for re-armament.

Indeed Churchill served loyally in his cabinet through out the lead up to war and once remarked in the 1950s ‘to jaw-jaw is always better than to war-war’

Steve

On the button..though to be honest i feel that ” probably loose ” should be changed to “definately loose “….What chance would a biplane dominated RAF have had against a well equiped Luftwaffe??? NONE…

and with air dominance where would the RN or the Army have been?

Enough said i think, It might be viewed as a ” sell out ” by some but Chamberlain bought enough, and only just enough, time for a frantic expansion of the Armed forces….thank god he did!!!