I think at the end of the day what the US has done is very debatable , however that still doesnt mean that what AQ did at 911 wasnt barbaric , do you think that UBL and his goones would stop plotting against US if the US moderates and ends up reaching an agreement where there is a 2 state settlement ( just a hypothetical scenario) , Bin laden hates america , what it stands for and it is a pipe dream that if the US somehow decreases it support for Israil that him and his cronies will kiss and make up , they will simply find some other reason behind their actions , their entire existance , source of power lies in them running a mission to kill as many Americans as possible . What these actions will do is reduce the ammount of people in the comming generations that might tend to hate the US for its middle east policy however even that is doubtful considering that propoganda machine of the terrorists is succesfull in that region to blind the thoughts and indoctronate people into beleiveng many falsehoods . We have to remember hat 911 was caused by UBL and AQ and the organizations that supported them like the taliban ( not iraq) and these people are very different from the 10 year old palestinian or arab who might grow up to hate the US .

What I am worried about is that our freinds in europe , asia , africa and elsewhere should grow to dislike our policy as iraq and other actions are letting happen ( i wont go into the merits and demerits of iraq) and these western and some eastern countries be it germany , france , russia etc usually tend to beleive what is reasonably true rather then fall into PR efforts . Therefore the end goal should be to reach the 2 state settlement without further bloodshed , get out of iraq As soon as the new regime becomes self suffeceint (dont do it before that or else it would be counterproductive) , Further pressurize freinds in ME like Saudi arabia to become more open ( the state dept. is actually doing a lot more then it gets credit for on those fronts) , get the job done in afganistan and bring the boys home and turn out a better foreign policy so that we stay on good terms with our friends in europe and asia . Obviously the terorists would try to prevent this from happeneing as it will bring doom to them but we have to look beyond whatever they try.

After bush goes i think that in a relativly short period of time things with the allies will be sorted out , looking at the power houses on both side of the plotical spectrum no one really is as aggressive as bush and most are people who seek greater alliances.

Well said !

but i have my doubts if bush leaving will solve the probs he has created…there are too many monied interests supporting him to allow for all his ” good work “( Dear god !!! ) to come to nought!!

Well, Well,

So poor ole GW had to admit what the rest of us have known for how long???

Secret CIA prisons…whats next??? Persuasive interrogation techniques??

MY MISTAKE !!!!

IRAQ HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 9-11 !!!!

Jap Crap.

remember when he went up in an F15? hahaha

Jap crap??? Jap crap??? keeps going for ages…dare we one say a four letter word here? ……ROVER…now that was crap!

F15 was ok…but p-51 was better!!!

Clarkson’s piece yesterday on archaeology, Time Team et al. 🙂

Mark

and you take anything that the eejet says seriously???

come on…he hates toyota corollas!!! :diablo:

So now we know that the Taliban are good fighters, probably better than ours. It just shows what can happen if you underestimate your foe. It would seem time is rapidly running out, as Winter is approaching, the Taliban will retreat too the Mountains. In my opinion, the Taliban can’t be destroyed, because there will always be others too take the place of those killed. Now it’s time for common sense too come into play, and put an end too this no win situation. I hope I’m proved wrong, but things don’t look good. This game of Chess is heading for a stalemate.
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Better? maybe different.. they dont fight by the rules ! The Uk forces are understrength and not properly equipped for this kind of war.

and you are right ..you cant defeat a belief…the British tried it in Northern Ireland , Eden and Afganistan ..many years ago!

The Germans tried it in France,Norway, The Netherlands etc etc etc in WW2 withour success and look what they tried to solve the ” problem” !

and thats not mentioning Vietnam…

When will governments learn????

Given the disparity of the size of the forces, I don’t think so. :rolleyes:

The presence of UK forces gives the US the idea that they are the of a Crusading force for good!!

You’re sounding like Charles Lindbergh and the “America First’ campaign that wanted the US to stay out of WWII. A lot of Americans made the same arguments before the US entered WWI and II.

surely america’s foreign policy is ” America first ” anyway? its just that it ******s up the rest of the world while iits doing it.

Assuming we did win the War against the Taliban, it wont stop there. Other countries are gearing up against the Western World. The only answer too all this is too destroy every adversary, problem is this will lead too World War Three.
I think we have bitten of more than we can chew.
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damn right…..

you can never defeat a way of thinking or a belief….unless you wnat to wipe out entire populations.

We have been set on a path that may spell the end of the Civilisied world as we know it.

I genuinely didn’t know if there were any other troops in Afganistan. I feel sorry for the poor beggars doing peace keeping though. I’d rather be killed in combat than be killed in “peace-time”.

The way I look at these things is that “I have no intorest in occupying foreign countries, just as long as they don’t try to occupy mine”.

I have no doubt that the Taliban feel the same.

” do onto others as you would have them do onto you” ? doesnt always work…

we need to monitor situations in some volatile countries were human rights are questionable.but we dont need the kind of responses that America in its self appointed role as the world’s policeman has used..We dont need the kind of discriminatory morals that their Administrations have displayed over the years.

and to be frank i would rather not die at all ….and definitely not for a questionable War at the behest of a questionable American president and a questionable British PM.