for all who died on that horrible day..

May they rest in peace

May their god be with them

May their friends and relatives find peace and solice in the memory of happier times.

And to those brave men and women who died trying to save others Words will never be enough .

Fear a government that fears your guns. Sorry you don’t understand that. BTW, how long have you lived in the U.S.?

ohh i understand that quite well actually! Just makes me feel sad for someone who beleives this sort of stuff! Charlton Heston should have stayed on the set of the Omega man!! :dev2:

and how long did i spend in the states?

heeeeeeeeeh signor i try 256 times to croos da borda fro Mecico dis yar..i ge thar somtim an cum cut yur grass? 😀

Seriously… Long enough old son…long enough!

Nice slogan. NRA, perchance?

I wonder which the good citizens of Basra and Baghdad and of inner cities in the USA (and yes, the UK too) are more afraid of?

Their government or the other people with guns? :rolleyes:

nice slogan ???

sounds more like a job spec for a terrorist state !

EN830,

I take your point totally but as one who has visited many crash sites and indeed visited many many gravesides and had conversation with those left behind both surviving crew and relatives the word of the moment is indeed enjoy.

Enjoy the site, the photos, the fact that we actually managed to do the recovery and all this done while knowing we had the proper procedures in place and the blessing of the pilots brother to do the dig.

The Pilot was killed in this accident but if we do not recover the remains of these aircraft and display such rare and historic parts in the museum then someone who doesnt care will come along and take the part and use them for financial gain which is not our policy. In fact that weekend cost everyone who visited the site money. We share the costs.

sorry if I went off topic but just trying to make my point of enjoying the whole experiance.

regards scott

Well done to all involved..Nice to see ,once again, voluntary non-profit oriented work such as this..

keep up the good work!!!!

Erez,

“I don’t know their work and I can’t judge what they wrote. I’ll be interested in reading it though.”

and i would be interested in hearing what you think of their writings and their finding’s..

“Aren’t they entitled to their own opinion regarding the American policy in the world?”
“What they really want to say is that people from around the world say that the reason that the US is being hated around the world is its support for Israel. As far as I understand, they claim that its untrue, and is a defamation of Israel”

everyone is entitled to their opinion. However some opinions , such as discrimination ,anti-semitism or for that matter support of mass genocide, are not acceptable in civilisied society.

The US Administration, and many of its predecessors, is despised around the world for the arrogance and hypocrisy of its foreign policy.I am sorry to say that its attitude to Isreal along with its blind and unquestioning support for everything and anything that Isreal does means that Isreal is one of the major factors in this despisement.

“Let’s compare that to pre-1948 Palestine. The Jews decide that they want a homeland in their historical homeland. The problem is, there are alreay people there. If they claimed the entire land, they wouldn’t have got it. So, the solution came in the form of partition. That’s a reasonable, fair solution, and it was accepted by the Zionists and should have also been accepted by the Palestinians.”

right…so they ” decided ” this and that makes it right???? and as for their being soo nice not to claim all the land, just most of it…what about all the land grabs that have happened since then???What about the illegal occupations and invasions???

and once again i ask …what gives them the right to claim land which by your admission they hadnt occupied since when???? IF the a
American Indians or the Australian Aborigine dont have the same rights of reoccupation despite occuping their land much more recently what was the rationalle behind the establishment of the state of Isreal?? after all this happened 60 years ago….

” call the return of the Jews to their native homeland a success. The partition of Palestine was not a success, but the people responsible for that were the Palestinians.”

A success for who??? one small part of the population of the Middle east?? how many deaths both Isreali and Arab has this cost???How much disruption not just in the Middel east but across the world???

WE ARE ALL PAYING A HELL OF A HIGH PRICE FOR THE FREEDOM OF ISREAL

and its all the Palestinians fault???? they are invaded, brutalisied , murdered …and its their fault??? ….words fail me in the face of such thinking.

“The Israeli relationship with the South African apartheid regime was probably the darkest part in the history of the Israeli foreign affairs. Any assistance given to that regime by Israel is a shame. I for one believe that if it hasn’t done so until now, Israel should officialy apologize for that.”

Well said !!!! and that is sincerely meant!!! 😉

“No one said that there were no human rights abuses made by Israel, but none in the form of slavery.”

Slavery comes in many forms…Subsistance wages, unfair work conditions, abuse etc etc etc…

some more sites for your perusal;

http://www.washington-report.org/pdf/postcardMarch2003.pdf#search=%22%22palestinian%20workforce%22%22
http://www.antiwar.com/hacohen/h052402.html

“Let me begin by saying that some of the sources used to prepare some of these statistics are completely biased. ““But even these sources talk about a couple of thousands of Palestinians killed during the Intifada – none of them talks about, quote, “TENS OF THOUSANDS”.”

and “http://www.adl.org/international/Is…ntroduction.asp.” is totally unbiased and fair????

to quote myself; “note that most of the figures are for a period of 4 or 5 years ONLY and are not up to the present day “

work it for yourself….thses are the figures for a period of 4 to 5 years…how long have the Palestinians suffered at the hands of Isreal?

“But isn’t that some spokespersons’ jobs and way of behaviour? What makes you think that its local to Israelis?”

no it isnt..only in America and even there not as often as with Isreal’s reps.

“GOOD ANSWER…BET THAT TOOK A LOT OF THOUGHT!!!!! (Almost as much thought as your own witty response, I’ll bet! GA “

well…with me being a thicko paddy it does take a while sometimes….. 😀

“Murder of innocent men, women and children wasn’t/isn’t/hopefully never will be the stance of the Israeli governments. The stance of the Israeli governments was/is/hopefully always will be fighting terrorism. Unfortunately, innocent people get killed in the process. Innocent people get killed in all conflicts.”

mass use of cluster bombs? 100,000+ unexploded/time delay bomblets in south Lebanon? TV pictures of innocent babies shot to death in the street by the IDF ? how many dead Un observers?

There are too many innocent deaths to be ignored….

and once again and for the third time i ask,outside of Isreal;

“who supports your governments stance? who thinks you are in the right?…..”

I was talking to a friend of mine who is a journalist and he was involved in the story of a Tempest V that was excavated illegally where remains were found and the authorities were not contacted. I don’t know the whole story but the point is that they dug up what was supposed to be the pilots “war grave” in order to do DNA tests on what was in the coffin to establish the ID of the remains tampered with. I will get in touch with him and see if there are any other details that I can pass on.

Ali

This has to be one of the most disgusting things that anyone can do… cannot beleive that anyone with a scrap of respect for these fallen heroes could do such a thing.

sick isnt the word for it..

In reply to EREZ……….

What’s wrong with fighting the defamation of the Jewish people? wasn’t there enough of it through history, or today?

If you want to relate to the content of the website and prove what kind of crap it is, be my guest. Until then, your arguments earn no credit from me and are, once more, way too simplistic.

The idea of not being able to “earn” credit from someone who cant recognise that the deaths of so many Arab civilians is wrong does’nt really upset or worry me too much…but if you really want examples of the tiresome rubbish on this site;

On every issue, the authors start with unproven, anti-Israel assumptions and then look for isolated examples to justify these assumptions. One does not have to take a pro-Israel position to recognize that the authors, despite their reputations, have no interest in producing a serious, balanced work. The result is a sloppy diatribe.

and this relating to two eminent , well qualified and respected men of learning who, horror of horrors , happen to be attached to two of the major Universities in the good ole US of A…i have read their script…WHAT THEY SURMISIED IS TRUE!!!!

Therefore, the primary deterrent activity will be U.S. military, intelligence and diplomatic work overseas. We will take the war to them. The message of preemptive action will have finally at great cost, been internalized. Of course, there will be those here and abroad who will try to divert our government and people from its necessary mission. One way is the suggestion that this happened because U.S. support of Israel breeds hatred of us in the Arab world. If only America had backed off from Israel, it is said, none of this would have happened.

hoorahhhhhh…lets go nuke ’em!!!!! realistic journalism???? me a**E !!!!

An error? whose error? the idea that this is a homeland for two nations was accepted by the UN, the Zionist leadership who accepted the UN plan, as well as the rest of the world.
And it was my personal opinion for a very long time. So, I’m not “admitting” anything.

The ancient history of the Jews and their connection to this land IS HARD FACTS, not “historical conjecture”. Or do you want to start denying history now, or alter it to suit your views?

And no, before you start, I’m not talking about anything related to religion. I’m talking about the FACTS, that Jewish/Israelite kingdoms existed in this land in the past for centuries, that they were destroyed by foreign powers, that the Jews of Judea have been forcibly exiled from the land by the Romans almost 2000 years ago and that the modern day Jews are the descendants of these people.

About giving the land in the world to its original native people, that’s practically impossible in the post-imperialist world. The only place that it was possible and has been done successfuly was the UN mandate of Palestine-Land of Israel.

Sorry old son but your argument doesnt hold water…in fact you have actually destroyed the rationale behind the foundation of the State of Isreal…IF it isnt practical to re establish the native Americans or Aborigine as the owners of their own land then why should the Jewish people be allowed to retake land that they lost 2000 years ago???? and furthermore you have subsequently listed some of the various tribes and peoples who have lived in Palestine..what gives Isreal the right to a better claim that their descendants???

Israel is not going away. The Palestinians are not going away. It’s obvious that the only working solution is in the form of partition, whether we like it or not.”

Well you got that one right..neither people will be going away…in the same way that your old friends the white supremacists in South Africa didnt go away…nor for that matter the Coloured people of SA …But the old ” white power” merchants had to learn to COMPROMISE and to accept the inevitable…everyone is equal in this world no matter what colour they are or what god they worship…and the rest of the world usually isnt wrong either!!!!

Alright, then prove the so called “almost-Arab-slavery”, a weird new term by the way.

ok…some stories of discrimination and abuse of human rights:

http://www.scottishpsc.org.uk/EffectiveSolidarity/histadrut.html
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2004/680/re104.htm
http://www.fips.org.il/fips/site/p_publications/item_en.asp?doc=&iss=&iid=570

I don’t happen to have Arab brothers. Do you happen to have Jewish brothers?

yes i do as matter of fact.but then they are people of reason and fairness.

And which murder are you talking about? I don’t think that the total number of Palestinian civilians killed by Israel since its creation comes close to “TENS OF THOUSANDS”.

some more anti semetic, pinko commie misinformers..note that most of the figures are for a period of 4 or 5 years ONLY and are not up to the present day:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4294502.stm
http://www.robincmiller.com/pales6.htm
http://www.dci-pal.org/english/PrinterF.cfm?DocId=163&CategoryID=2
http://www.phrmg.org/initifiada%20statistics.htm
http://www.phrmg.org/monitor.htm
http://www.jerusalemites.org/statistic.htm

enough?

I for one don’t shout, roar, rant or try to bully. How on earth could you think I do all that when all you can do is READ what I WRITE here?I have an answer for that, but I don’t want to put words in your mouth. But what I think is that you wrote that because that’s the dumb image of Israelis that you have, sir – and I don’t care how much you write that “you have no problem with Israelis”.

Bit of a persecution complex by the sounds of things…….

Funny, and all this time I’m waiting for you to do the same.”

GOOD ANSWER…BET THAT TOOK A LOT OF THOUGHT!!!!! :diablo: ( Almost as much thought as your own witty response, I’ll bet! :rolleyes: GA )

Can you explain me the stance of the Israeli governments? and which issue are you referring to?

Well if you REALLY dont know…go look back through the various postings on this and other treads…ITS YOUR GOVERNENTS MURDER OF MEN WOMEN AND KIDS…OK???

“who supports your governments stance? who thinks you are in the right?…..”