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edisonone

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  • in reply to: SpaceshipOne-like enterprise with an Asia touch…. #2067212
    edisonone
    Participant

    Looks like theyve beaten the boys at DARPA to getting a hull in the water!!!

    Below is the US ‘Loki’ littoral ‘sub-fighter’ concept artwork – quite the thing to chop the props off them nasty little mudhole-lurking SSKs. 😀

    The project above however is said to be a private enterprise,
    hence the SpaceshipOne metaphor given here. A monetary award however was said
    to be attached, although the amount is unknown at this time.

    edisonone
    Participant

    Education… It’s at its best as it seems here.

    😮

    Future aeronautics engineers? Or kids at Toy’sRUs???

    http://english1.people.com.cn/200411/10/images/1109_B23.jpg

    The enthusiasm, as it seems, is unquestionably there…

    But, will they stay put where they are, or will they scatter
    all over the world http://www.spacedaily.com/news/chip-tech-04zl.html
    like the seeds of life and settles wherever the winds of spring deposits them —
    the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory for instance???

    Outsourcing, as the charges looms, is not limited to…
    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F2071FF835590C718CDDA80994DC404482
    only America. It is alive, it is well, and it is thriving even in Asia

    😮

    edisonone
    Participant

    Hi

    Can somone who knows Chinese kindly give general translation for that B-2 lookalike cg?

    Thanks,
    Raj

    The suspicion-suspence continues….

    At the very least, I believe a feasibility study
    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/h-9.htm
    or maybe even an actual B2-like project is at the works in Asia…

    I mean how can or how does anyone explain away
    all those UFO sightings that’s been reported throughout Asia over
    the last few years or soon after the war in Kosevo???

    Area 51’s in Nevada? Then, why not Area 51’s in
    the continent of Asia? The idea is not far fetched you know,
    given the lessons Asians have come to learn and value throughout the
    years about the need for secrecy in military R&D’s…

    .

    edisonone
    Participant

    rough translation

    China #1 aerospace industries company has begun the design of a next generation fighter. At the fifth international flight convention no.1 display hall, the company made public through a video a new jet which resembles F22’s aerodynamic structure which has passes design and theoretical tests, may very well be in the stages of wind tunnel testings.
    Confirmation came from the chinese aerospace industry that these test are conduted at shengyang aricraft company.
    Also, chengdu design beureau has begun the modification/ improvement of J10A, has completed the stealth desigh concept. Focusing on stealth features upon traditional aerodynamic body. Utilized both canard and delta technique. Fuselage convey the F117 concept, rejected traditional aerodynamic style

    Another rumor to fuel suspicion to the above theory
    http://military.china.com/zh_cn/head/83/20041110/11956763.html
    providing, of course, that you have confidence in the words of Mr. Pinkov.

    平可夫声称中国军工已开始研制隐形战机

      香港《亚洲周刊》11月14日一期文章(作者 平可夫)称,中国航空
    工业公司第一集团研制下一代隐形战斗机的工作已经开始。在第五届珠海中国
    国际航空展第一展厅内,中航第一集团公开的录像上展示了酷似F22隐形战斗机气动外形
    设计的论证、设计工作似乎已经完成,很可能已经进入风洞试验阶段。
      
      中国航空工业界的消息来源证实这一论证工作
    在沈阳飞机公司进行。而矢量推进技术在成都飞机公司研究。并且强调:
    这一预研工作已经进行了很长时间,并且进展顺利。
      
      此外,成都飞机设计研究所也开始了J10A战斗机
    的改良工作,已经完成了隐形化的概念设计。它主要在气动外形上贯彻
    隐形的设计要求。采用了鸭式、三角翼机身融合技术。机头设计参考报F117经验,
    放弃了传统的流线型方式、改用扁平、多边菱形设计方式。
      
      笔者获悉这一计划构想包括两种概念:一种是让隐形J10A采用
    双发布局。双垂尾翼,外倾角度大致与美空军F22、JSF相同;另一种轻型化隐形J10A,
    依然采用单发,双垂直尾翼,类似F35。其他基本结构不做大的调整。
      
      依照目前的发展方向判断,中国已经明确拉开了研制隐形歼击机
    的序幕,并且依然准备因循J10A-苏27SK轻型、重型战斗机的“轻重搭配”方式,
    由成都沈阳共同提出轻重隐形歼击机的设计概念和发展方案,由目前提出的隐形歼击机方、
    构想判断,未来的中国航空工业“南轻北重”的布局不太会轻易改变。
      
    图为双发歼10想像图
    http://bbs.china.com/images/2004-11-10/110005367311956763218117.jpg

    .

    edisonone
    Participant

    .

    Good opportunity for a top notch interpretors to help crack
    this mystery wide open for all to see and to digest. No Babblefish however
    because Babblefish is not designed for tough jobs as this.

    近日印度LCA正式公开亮相,并表示将参加国际市场的竞争,地球人都知道这不过是抢在FC-1试飞前SHOW罢了。别说其量产还早,就是量产还要用美国的发动机,能否出口还要看美国人的脸色。实际上印度空军自己连续进行购买苏-30MKI和M-2000计划。又决定对米格-21和美洲虎进行性能提升,资源投入留给LCA的空间已经很小。难怪有人说LCA是个早该OVER的东东,无非历届印度政府缺乏取消的勇气罢了。

      LCA最早提出在80年代初期,当时为对抗巴基斯坦购买的F-16,不过由于印度自身航空研发实力有限,所以仍决定向苏联采购米格-29向法国采购M-2000。LCA转变为与其进行高低搭配的多用途轻型战机。88年HAL公布其设想图的时候表达其性能要优于F-20。LCA的研制除了HAL等印度本国公司外亦得到如法国达索、美国LM等公司的协助。并且采用较多的国外系统如爱立信的PS-05火控雷达、通用电气的F-404发动机等。尽管这样其研制进度仍一波三折。1995年11月17日首架技术验证机TD-1出厂,首飞原定于96年7月,后推迟到99年中,最后在2001年1月5日的试飞,至于量产可能还要等到2008年左右。

      FC-1是由我国成都飞机公司与巴基斯坦航空综合公司联合研制的。该机1987年以超-7的名字提出。90年代初由于计划的变动,改名为FC-1。与LCA一样,该机除了中巴双方外,俄罗斯的米高扬亦提供相关的技术支援。俄罗斯还提供该机的RD-93A发动机。其他外国公司包括意大利FIAR公司,其提供FC-1的Grifo S-7。FC-1预计在今年6月首飞,2005年量产。

    印度LCA轻型战斗机

      气动布局

      LCA采取无尾三角翼布局,进气道位于机身两侧机翼下方。飞机按放宽静稳定度设计,集成4余度电传飞行控制系统,利用垂尾和机翼后缘的两段式升降副翼以及前缘的三段式缝翼对飞机的飞行姿态进行控制。飞机采用碳纤维复合材料、铝锂合金以及钛合金等先进的材料。其修型三角翼采用碳纤维复合材料,安装在机身上部,前缘复合后掠,内段后掠角小,外段大。大扭转角,上下单块蒙皮使用螺栓安装在翼盒上,大部分翼肋和桁条采用复合材料制造。前缘装有三段式缝翼,后缘为两段式升降副翼,气流在前缘内侧的涡流分离器和内侧缝翼的共同作用下,在翼根和垂尾处形成涡流。减速板位于机身上方垂尾两侧。垂尾、方向舵、升降副翼、减速板以及起落架舱盖都采用了复合材料。这一机翼设计非常独特,尤其是向前凸的前沿,但外界普遍怀疑这一设计的合理性,认为外凸设计实际上会减低LCA的机动性能。而且大三角翼并不符合短距起降的要求,因此也不适合舰载使用。由于LCA的翼展较小,因引不可避免的引起诱导阻力增大的缺点。

      FC-1的采取常规布局。但突出了大迎角条件下的机动性能,如采用扁平机头和大边条设计,后者还可以提供飞机在高速转弯时的额外升力,飞机进气口内倾,翼面类似与F-16的切角三角形,采用宽边条,并向后延伸形成后边条兼作尾撑;带前后缘襟翼的40度后掠梯形翼,平尾、垂尾经过切尖修形;机翼前缘的延伸板也被加大。这种外型设计,很明显能提高飞机的中低空缠斗性能,同时减少机身的雷达波反射面积。

      发动机

      LCA采用的是美国的F404-F2发动机。采用带进气锥的环形进气口。有可调进口导流叶片。风扇采用3级轴流式宽弦实心钛合金风扇叶片。高压压气机为7级轴流式。高压涡轮1级轴流式。气膜加冲击空气冷却的涡轮叶片和导向器叶片。低压涡轮1级轴流式。Rene 80制造的空心气冷转子叶片。其中间推力为4800公斤。加力推力为8000公斤。推重比为7.8左右。

      FC-1采用的俄罗斯的RD-93A发动机,其为米格-29的RD-33的单发型。除了在辅助设备有些差异,其他性能基本相同。其采用四级风扇,9级轴流式高压压气机,单级高低压涡轮。其中间推力4913公斤,加力推力8140公斤。推重比为7.8左右。

    LCA座舱

      座舱

      LCA的座舱由法国设计。由HUD和中视显示器和四块MFD-55液晶显示器组成。配备的“综合数字电子设备”是由设备系统,管理系统(USMS),推进系统、电气系统及飞行控制系统共同组成。其核心是一个“32位任务计算机”,能够完成诸如飞行控制、机载设备自检等数据计算任务。任务计算机软件采用美国国防部ADA语言。系统的综合能力还是相当不错的。操纵系统采用了四余度电传操纵系统。

      FC-1的座舱目前采用我国的设备。基本结构由1553B数据总线联结,主要设备有任务计算机、脉冲多普勒雷达、惯导加全球定位系统、外挂管理系统、敌我识别器、雷达告警接收机、箔条/曳光弹投放器和数据传输单元等。操纵界面为平显、多功能显示器和双手不离杆操纵系统。而量产型可能会采用意大利提供了的综合座舱系统。其由HUD和四块LCD组成。可提供飞行员良好的SA能力(态势感知能力)。由于成本所限,FC-1采用双余度纵轴电传操纵系统。

      雷达

      LCA采用的是爱立信的PS-05A。工作模式包括:空空:远程搜索,多目标边扫边跟,近程宽角快速扫描,导弹和火炮火控 空地:海面和地面目标搜索、截获,地形测绘,导弹火控等。对空中目标最大搜索距离达到120公里。可同时跟踪10个目标并具备同时与4个目标交战的能力,不过由于LCA的机头比JAS-39要小,所以限制了其天线的尺寸。其性能要缩水很多。

      FC-1采用的是FIAR公司的Grifo S-7,其工作模式包括:空空、空地、空海、边扫边跟等25种工作模式。其对空中目标的最大搜索距离为80公里。可同时跟踪8个目标。并可以同时与2个目标交战。

      空空导弹

      LCA采用的是以色列的德比中距弹和怪蛇-4格斗导弹。这两种导弹系采用同种弹体搭配不同的导引头研制成而成的。其中德比的尺寸为的长度为3.8米,直径150毫米,翼展为500毫米,重量118公斤。动力射程60公里。其采用了惯导+末主动雷达导引方式。并没采用通行的指令修正的辅助制导手段,所以其远程能力受到限制。“怪蛇”4近距空空导弹是西方使用的第一种大离轴角近距空空导弹。导弹装有数字式自动驾驶仪,其气动设计使它能作70g的机动,重量105公斤,采用双波段红外制导系。怪蛇”4的特点是控制面很多,其高机动性是通过其总共18个气动面的协调工作而实现的。从弹头往后是四个固定的前翼,同样数目的俯仰/偏航/滚转翼,两个水平方向的全飞行副翼,四个固定的逐渐变窄的边条,尾部组件上的4个固定弹翼,这个尾部组件一旦在发射时由两个掣子松开,就可在滚转方向自由旋转。四个边条的作用是产生升力,并为弹体提供结构刚度,特别是在飞行末期推进剂燃尽,再也不能增加导弹的刚度时更为需要。

      FC-1的空空导弹目前来看是我国SD-10中距弹和法国魔术-2格斗导弹。其中SD-10估计采用指令修正+中继惯导+末制导雷达导引方式,动力射程80公里以上,有效射程60公里左右。其采用较为独特的切尖尾翼。保证其具有较高的机动性能。至于魔术-2只能说是目前入门级的配置。该弹采用双鸭式气动外形布局,4片固定式切梢三角形前翼位于导弹头部,其后为4片活动式前段梯形/后段三角形组成的舵面,4片后掠梯形旋转式弹翼位于导弹尾部。采用单元红外制导系统。

      精确对地攻击

      LCA可以携带以色列的利特宁吊舱,其已经用于苏-30MKI战斗轰炸机。其装备有前视红外跟踪系统、激光测距/照射系统、捷联惯导系统等。对坦克大小的目标的跟踪距离可达20公里。配备的武器包括法国激光制导炸弹和AS30空地导弹。

      FC-1采用的或许是我国研制的“蓝光吊舱”,从许多方面来讲,其与以色列的利特宁性能差不多。其配备的武器包括激光制导炸弹和空地导弹。

      反舰

      LCA的目前能够发射的反舰导弹应该有法国的飞鱼,其AM39的性能为:最大射程70公里。弹重670公斤。弹长4.69米,直径0.35米。战斗部重160公斤。俄罗斯的KH-35:性能为:最大射程1300公里。弹重480公斤。弹长4.4米,直径0.425米。战斗部重145公斤。

      FC-1采用我国的C-802反舰导弹,其引进的型号为C-802A。性能指标为:最大射程150公里。弹重715公斤。弹长6.4米,直径0.365米。战斗部重165公斤。

      综上所述,可以看出LCA和FC-1的基本上不相伯仲。FC-1凭借其中距弹在超视距空战能力上占优。LCA凭借FBW和怪蛇-4在格斗能力胜出。至于其他如精确对地打击和反舰能力基本相同。LCA的虽然已经试飞,但其系统的兼容的问题还是比较大,毕竟以色列、法国和俄罗斯是三个不同体系的东东,而意大利和我国都采用美国的军标,系统整合起来要容易的多。当然这只是个很粗糙的比较,实际上现代空战是综合体系的对抗。包括预警指挥、飞行员素质、后勤保障、电子对抗等方面。另外LCA和FC-1在设备和细节是否还有调整目前还不得而知。所以对其两者的对比可能还会有调整。

    附相关资料:

    超七飞机的主要参数
    翼展: 9.00米
    机长: 14.00米
    机高: 5.10米
    主轮距: 2.54米
    前主轮距: 4.94米
    正常起飞重量:9100千克
    最大起飞重量:12700千克
    外挂能力: 3800千克
    机内燃油: 2300升
    最大马赫数: M1.6
    最大表速: 1300千米/小时
    实用升限: 16500米
    起飞滑跑距离:500米
    着陆滑跑距离:700米
    转场航程: 3000千米
    作战半径: >1200千米

    LCA基本技术数据
    机长:13.20米
    机高:4.40米
    翼展:8.20米
    展弦比:1.8
    机翼面积:37.5平方米
    主轮距:2.20米
    前后轮距:4.34米
    空重:5.5吨
    最大外挂量:>4吨
    起飞重量 (无外挂)8.5吨
    翼载荷 (无外挂)221.4千克/平方米
    推力载荷 (无外挂)106kg/kN
    最大平飞速度 (高空)M1.6
    实用升限:15240米
    限制过载:+9/-3.5g

    .

    edisonone
    Participant

    Well, if you insist . . .

    Man… It’s God!!!
    It’s the God from the land of Dragon Balls!!!!
    Cool toon I tell ya.

    .

    edisonone
    Participant

    Starwars — it’s warp speeds ahead….

    .

    I wonder if :p Queen Amidala :p will still be selected as part of this cast?

    Space Treaty, Not Weapons, Needed, Expert Says
    http://www.space.com/news/garwin_spaceweapons_041108.html
    NEW YORK – The development and deployment of space-based weapons by
    the U.S. military will not only encourage other nations to do the same, but leave vital non-
    weapon spacecraft vulnerable to attack, according to one weapons expert.

    .

    edisonone
    Participant

    literal translation:
    (Title) with dreams comes success
    chinese tactical stealth bomber

    in the dangerous environment of the 21th century, an army without high tech arms, cannot defend the achievements of it’s country. This stealth plane has perfect stealth ability and achieve a radar reflectiveness of 0, bla bla about the radar…
    undisruptable radio transmission, cruise at altitude of 10km and range of 6000km. Armament include cruise missle, LGB. and CVTOL able…

    http://forum.airforces.info/images/icons/icon14.gif Nice to know that, unlike some here, that others
    in this forum can indeed put their money where their mouth is. As such,
    another challenge: Please also decipher the following.

    中国航空工业公司第一集团研制下一代隐形战斗机的工作已经开始。在第五届珠海中国国际航空展第一展厅内,中航第一集团公开的录像上展示了酷似F22隐形战斗机气动外形的论证、设计工作似乎已经完成,很可能已经进入风洞试验阶段。
    中国航空工业界的消息来源证实这一论证工作在沈阳飞机公司进行。
    此外,成都飞机设计研究所也开始了J10A战斗机的改良工作,已经完成了隐形化的概念设计。它主要在气动外形上贯彻隐形的设计要求。采用了鸭式、三角翼机身融合技术。机头设计参考了F117的经验,放弃了传统的流线型方式,多边菱形设计方式。

    Much appreciated.

    .

    edisonone
    Participant

    His humor is so strange that even the Chinese
    members here are confused and offended. But we’ve
    given up trying to change him, so don’t worry 🙂

    That [B]”little guy that lives within you”[/B], Mr. Dragon, has finally
    showed its true and pathetic self :p. It is now out of your control. It has
    finally found the freedom it has long yearned. It is now on the loose, it is
    having a field day and a party of a lifetime making an a** of itself :p.

    I mean who in the world gives you the rights to
    change people anyway, Dragon :D? Are you God or somethin’
    Mr. Dragon? Are you? Are you God,Mr. Dragon :p?!!!

    So typically Hongish :mad:!!! I so feel for the
    buncha you!!! Firstly, Dragon, change yourself (or yourselves) before
    you start preaching or try to change others!!!!

    .

    edisonone
    Participant

    Its a translation.

    Realistically, i wonder why Pakistanis are going for this aircraft. Look at the satement

    We always loose this point because of the noise generated in such discussion. J-10 and F-16 advanced blocks remain best bet against LCA.

    What it says, literally, in Chinese, is that it is
    highly unlikely that the two (FC-1 and the LCA) will ever meet up
    with one another in real to life air war situation.

    edisonone
    Participant

    FYI,
    The first pick is a picture of “kitbashing.” Anyone who has built model airplanes should be familiar with the concept of combining two model kits to make something new. That first pic is just a kitbash between a Mirage 2000 forward fuselage (I am assuming 1/48) and an F-111 from the rear cockpit bulkhead back (I am assuming 1/72 scale). The canards could have been scratch built or off of a drop tank, etc.

    The “Stealth” bomber pic is probably just a picture by a graphic artist describing a Chinese Bomber Program. I remember all of the “artists concpets” of the B-2 that came out before anything about the B-2 was known, except that it was reportedly a flying wing.

    Of course, it could “really” just be Chinese dis-information for the gullible. Apparently it’s been quite successful…lol ; )

    Now, the above is what I call a sensible, logical, reasonable,
    and a mature and none-childish response – not the “edisonone-bashing
    policies” depicted by the numerous responses of the above!

    Irony: People here seems to have disregarded totally the part
    which says (whadda you guys think???) when they fired away at me, almost in a
    festive mode, in responding to this beneign thread I had started.

    Standards in the English language??? Warlords!!!!

    http://forum.airforces.info/images/icons/icon14.gif http://forum.airforces.info/images/icons/icon14.gif http://forum.airforces.info/images/icons/icon14.gif

    edisonone
    Participant

    .

    Opportunity again arises, I see, Mr. Phantom :p …
    Anyway, let’s be honest about it, let’s get at the point here, or let’s get
    straight to the bottom of your grievances, Mr. F-4…

    Get a clue…….everytime
    you find a Chinese drawing or computer drawing,
    we don’t necessarily care.

    Mr. Phanton, if I don’t post those pics, someone else will
    if they ever come across it. And that’s a gauranteed, Mr. Phantom. And you
    can take that to the bank with you. Tell them Ed send you.

    Anyway, as is with that of the Lavi, of Mitsubishi’s F-2, maybe
    even that of South Korea’s much talked about T-50, your :p J–6.99 :p , too, couldn’t have
    been possible if it weren’t for the technical, the financial, and…

    the “POLITICAL BACKINGS” from
    the mother of all makers of aircrafts — the mighty
    United States of America of course…

    90 percent of your
    threads are a waste of space, and
    our time reading them.

    :confused: :confused:

    Here’s the irony, Mr. Phantom: Why do you then waste your time
    reading my posts if it turns you off so much? I mean aren’t you then somewhat as
    stupid and as idiotic as those of my pics and my posts, Mr. Phantom?

    And, far as waste is concerned: Are you telling me
    then, Mr. Phantom, that this post of yours is not a waste when it’s utilized for
    nothing else but as an attack on me??? Be serious!

    :confused: :confused: :confused: :p

    .

    edisonone
    Participant

    Rather its too much
    people take pics that those fans made
    for fun seriously and
    make BS comments out of them.

    This is how I view the pics:

    a) A joke by people or groups who likes to
    poke fun at the Chinese for whatever their reasons, or for
    whatever is maybe their misconceptions.

    b) These pics are the works of arts of individuals
    who have plenty of immaginations, people such as our warlord here,
    Mr. Dragon for instance (A compliment, Dragon. Honest!).

    c) Or, these pics may indeed be authentic ideas, plans,
    projects, wishfull thinkings, etc., etc., which are still in paper, or
    which was once upon a time in paper, but which are all still or was no more
    but feasibility studies and/or projects in early R&D stages.

    Either way, and amidst all the BS pics that has been
    posted here on this board
    , the pics that I had posted here,
    too, needs to be authenticated, applauded, booed, rejected, disproved
    and discredited, even ridiculed as any other. But, it should…

    “not have been “mannipulated” as high octane for an attack on me.”

    To the Attention of Mr. HKD:

    Thank you for your honesty, HKD. But, as I said, if I don’t
    post those pics, others will if and when they ever do come across it.
    And that, Mr. HKD, you can also take to the bank with you.

    In fact, for those who’ll click them if I failed to do so, you can
    bet on it that good chance they will brag about it more than they will try to
    introduce the possibilities of such an items as I tend to do.

    And, as far as my not reading Chinese is concerned: How many
    here does read it – fluently that is??? One exception: Mr. Huitong, I suspect is one who is
    really into it. All other’s are half barrels or none at all, my opion.

    .

    edisonone
    Participant

    .

    Concerning Complaints:

    Shishhh!!! Trying to get
    attention? Sarcasm?? Misquoting and misrepresentations,
    and so on, and so forth???

    If only you guy realized what my sarcasms, my misquotions, my
    misrepresentations, or my whatevers, had achieved or had put a stop to here in
    this board :mad:!!! Anyway, what outlandish and nonesensicle charges.

    Still however, don’t you guys even have the simple inteligence of
    ignoring something that you feel so strongly about? I mean why click on it if it’s such a pain
    to you guys??? Don’t you guys think it’s ironic of you to complain???

    Did you know that the mere word “CHiCom” has now been
    neutralized because I had the initiative to rub it in on those who had utilized
    it almost at wholesale to attack and make jokes on you guys???

    I dare say, that if it weren’t for my sarcasms, my misquotions, my putting
    my life on the line here, and, my misrepresentations that, you guys would still be the most
    joked upon makers of cheap toasters and Kungpao chickens in this world.

    “Therefore and once again, let me lay it straight on you guys: You guys were of
    no contest to those who challenged you. In fact, you guys were all over the place with your challengers.
    You guys were unable to defend your positions no matter how hard you tried.”

    So! Please don’t make a fool of your country and of your people, by portraying yourselves
    as experts here when percievably no one knows for certain what the true capabilities of these FC-1’s and J-10’s
    etc., etc., are trully like untill it would have been proven in a real-to-life combat situation.

    All About Dragons:

    Anyway, want all the credits, Dragon? And what did you say on PM, Dragon? Did you say
    that you didn’t want the Indians and the Brits brought into these Chinese topics over the fear your threads
    may get locked? Did you said that I should shut up if I wanted to help with the Chinese cause?

    Well fear not, Dragon, because, in my book, if you have what it takes – you can change things
    around no matter how negative it is! And, how you achieve this is by using your smarts rather than your head :p
    to change things, Dragon. I dare you try it, because bitching is not going to solve your problems.

    Concerning posting of Pics:

    And all those useless pics I click here??? Well, little do you know it,
    Dragon, but, even in America, pics like that are the inspiration that drives the brainchilds of
    machines such as F-22’s, etc., etc., to come to life and to take shape.

    Pics like that are the incubators, the seeds, or the things
    which fires up the enthusiasm and the interests of the next generation of
    engineers, scientists, and innovators to create and to innovate…

    So! Grouching tigers and hidden Dragon??? When will the minds
    :p “of the average Chinese” :p ever wake up to the realities of the REAL WORLD
    around them? Am I glad however that not all Chinese are like this…

    Sad! Indeed sad!

    .

    in reply to: New fc1 pic #2617069
    edisonone
    Participant

    From the pages of China.com:

    http://military.china.com/zh_cn/bbs/11018441/20041103/images/11947974_217464.jpg
    Sorry, didn’t know this pic has already been posted. But don’t hurt i suppose.

    Cool pic if permission to use for desktop wallpaper:

    http://jczsbbs1.sina.com.cn/upload/5/26/20040622/114522/114893.jpg
    Simulation of this, maybe? http://61.132.72.44/dswc/upload/images/85979673080.jpg

    Souce: http://jczsbbs1.sina.com.cn/cgi-bin/view.cgi?gid=5&fid=26&thread=114522&date=20040622

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