AVIUnexpected Pleasures
Just wanted to add here that while sailing off Toronto this past weekend, we heard the sound of piston engines and looked up to see the unmistakable silhouette of a Lancaster heading west, toward Hamilton.
Hadn’t seen one in the air since the early 1960s! What a pleasant surprise!
AVIDesign
Tom: What might be a start is to choose an engine and then a scale for the replica. The engine of choice has got to fit within the tight confines of the cowling, and the pilot (you) must fit within the tight confines of the cockpit. People don’t seem to scale down quite as readily.
The engine/power will have great influence on the wing size/area and will also determine scale. Tony Pileggi whose website is: http://www.corsair82.com is building an 82% scale Corsair. Not wood or metal but composites. However, there’s lots to be learned from his website.
Tony, (I’ve visited his workshop) ended up with an 82% scale design simply because the powerplant he chose was the PW R-985 which fit the cowling of an 82% Corsair. If you’ll read further, he goes on to explain how he had to modify the wing (larger than scale) to create sufficient wing area – kind of like the scale Spitifre with the 30% larger tailplane.
Have you checked out the metal homebuilt Spitfire from Oz? Think they call it the Mk 25? It’s pretty but it’s far from perfect scale.
Why not build in wood rather than aluminum? How many years do plan for the project? It seems to me if you choose to go the metal route, fabricating templantes and forms, you’re going to be building the airplane three times over as opposed to working in wood.
Do you want to fly or do you want to build? If you want to get into the air, my suggestion would be to buy either the Jurca or the Tally-ho plans. A few years ago there was a great article in one of the Kit magazines about the Tally-ho Spitfire. What impressed me was that the designers claimed that it was exact scale. Amazing.
Also check out: http://www.seqair.com that’s the Falco website. In case you’re not familiar with the Falco, it’s one of the prettiest aircraft designed, one of Stelio Frati’s early designs. It’s wood. They’re out of Richmond, Virginia, not too far from Virginia Beach, where I lived for many years.
AVISpar Caps
Tom:
Slow down a bit. I don’t want to p*ss on your parade, but those “tubes” that you so casually refer to happen to be spar caps, critical in the design/sizing of a spar.
A couple of L-Channels aren’t going to do the same job, regardless of what you do with the spar web. You’re messing with a critical structural component here!
This is scary stuff! Do some structural research first, before deciding on how to manufacture the spar. Think I-Beam. You’re dealing here with compression, tension, twist and shear loads, not simply how to design the structure for ease of manufacture in a home workshop so that it simulates the original spar in appearance.
Figure out the loads that the spar has to carry first, then brainstorm on how to fabricate it.
If all you’d like to do is to build a static display, then it doesn’t matter what you do. On the other hand, if you intend to fly it, it’s a different ballgame altogether.
AVITripple X Site
SAT, Tom.
Sorry for sending you to an XXX site. The Metalcraft site was up last Monday when I was surfing for metal shaping.
The magazine is published by the folks at Sculpture Supply Canada in Toronto.
The phone number for the Editor of Metalcraft, Nester Gula, is 416 232 0330.
Sculpture Supply is 416 234 1075 or 866 285 5509
Back issues are six or seven bucks each.
Also try http://www.formit.ca
AVISpar Size Calculations
Tom: FWIW, I’ve been working on the design of a 100% scale homebuilt replica of a well-known military trainer in composites, glass/carbon, rather than the aluminum construction of the original for more years than I’d like to admit. Of course, I have absolutely no knowledge of your design skill level, or whether you’re an engineer, fully qualified to design an aircraft from scratch, but let me caution you that there is much more to building a flying replica, especially one that is not 100% scale than simply building a scale balsa model.
I’m the last person in the world to try to discourage you from building a flying Spitfire – go for it – but if you have not already considered it, building a scaled down Spitfire is akin to designing a totally new, totally different aircraft.
For example, aerodynamics do not often scale down well, among other things, but if you are determined, there are many books out there that can offer a substantial degree of education, books like Dan Raymer’s “Simplified Aircraft Design for Homebuilders” (forget the expensive volumes published by Roskam – they line my bookshelves unused). I mention this because there are important calculations to be made in sizing a spar – calculations far more complicated than simply reproducing a look-alike replica spar. Now, I’ve got a bunch of parachute jumps myself, but it would still be of major concern if the wings were to come flying off the airplane on the initial flight. It could ruin your whole day!
There is a terrific website/forum: http://homebuiltairplanes.com If you haven’t already checked it out, go lurk.
It might be the most expedient route for you to purchase plans for either the 80% or 100% Spitfire from Marcel Jurca rather than designing your own airframe. Jurca passed away a couple of years ago but his plans for wood Spitfires are still available. There are a few presently flying. You already know about the guys in BC with their wood Spitfire so that’s another possibility.
Anyway, I apologize if this post sounds a bit like a lecture – not my intention at all. Sorry. If you’d care to chat, send me an Email and I’ll return with my email address and phone number. I’m only a couple of hours south of you, down on the Lake. And like you, I’m beginning to experiment with metal shaping – there’s an Me 109 rudder to be built ….
AVIScratcbuilt Spitfire
Tom: Here is a picture taken at the Oshawa airport last month. There were two homebuilt Spitfires there, one an early mark and this one which appears to be a Mk 18.
When asked whether it was built from a kit or scratch-built, the guy rolling it out, who perhaps was not the owner, responded, “Scratch-built! Even the wheels were cast.”
If you check out their website, http://www.metalcraftingmag.com out of Toronto, the cover on one of the back issues available features this Spitfire replica so you may be able to track the owner that way.
Let me add that the workmanship, including the paint, on this scale replica (80%?) was exceptional. It was a beauty! I was drooling, thinking how much I’d love to take her up for a flight myself!
AVIRE: Tools of the Trade
Thanks for the heads-up, Ol’Spitty. I’ll try to find those two programs.
I’d originally attempted to scale a couple of the drawings in Photoshop by using a known dimension but was thwarted by paper shrinkage in the originals. It was an exercise in futility, perhaps due to my inexperience with PS.
CAD made it possible to locate one of the important subassemblies on the rudder (the tail light assembly bracket). After creating a drawing of the subassembly from known measurements, it was located on the main drawing by first creating then inserting a block and fiddling with the block until it fit within known/confirmed locations/measurements on the drawing. It surprised me when it worked out, so I went off to celebrate with a cool one.
CAD was also great for plotting the ribs – after I figured out that one of the Messerschmitt spreadsheets was in fact a listing of the airfoil sections/stations.
Wow! That also was a cause for celebration.
Can’t be all that crazy when it’s so fun!
Now that the drawings are almost done, the next step is to figure out how to fabricate the various components! Now, that’s the crazy part – no metalwork experience, no workshop tools ….. but here I am, sitting here looking out at The Lake with nothing else much to do … my real project, a full size (composites) replica of a well-known military trainer is presently on hold, so …why not?
AVICrazy Guys
Wow and we thought we were crazy.Good luck with hunting down the 109 drawings.AFAIK only the Messerschmitt foundation and a few select others have access to them so you scored well if you got a few.We use primarily ProDesktop which is a students version of ProEngineer.Also check out this guys work.Inspirational stuff..http://me-109.br.sites.uol.com.br/maine.htm
😮
Thanks for the URL. You’re right – true inspiration!
I’m only dealing with fifty-odd WWII German drawings, some lacking detail dimensions – reduced-size copies of drawings which were originally in 1:1 scale with limited dimensioning, not thousands of them. Creating working drawings from them would be virtually impossible without CAD. Lauro, Mr 109Brazil, is doing the same thing with hundreds, if not thousands of drawings. Truly inspirational!
You’re doing a whole airplane too – thousands of drawings to create in 3D CAD. Also truly inspirational !! You’ve got it easy though – the WWII factory Spitfire drawings are in English!
AVIMe 109 Rudder
Hey, Old Spitty – that’s quite a 3D project you’re working on!
It’s taken me more than a couple of years to research and obtain information for the construction of an Me 109 rudder, including tracking down WW II Messerschmitt factory drawings, so I’ve got a great appreciation for what you’re doing in 3D with the Spitfire drawings. Great work!
So far, I’ve managed to more-or-less translate from German, interpret, decipher, and input the rudder drawings into 2D CAD. There’s a bit more work ahead.
It also takes a bit of detective work, doesn’t it?
Are you using Rhino?
AVIBelle
Belle sports a red outfit on the starboard side and blue on port.
Search my previous posts and you may find a picture of my Belle nose art panel.
The different shades of OD found on Belle are not necessarily caused by fading.
The camouflage included patches of a darker green on the wing upper surface, quite evident in photos published in journals such as “Wings of Fame”, “International Airpower Review” and “Warbirds”.
The Belle file isn’t handy at the moment – send me an Email and I’ll be glad to share what information I’ve been able to find during my Belle research, including photos of the original Belle taken by the late Gary Valant who’s book, “Vintage Aircraft Nose Art” is a classic. Those pictures were taken when Belle was still in Memphis. She’s at the Air Force museum undergoing restoration now – a fair distance from St Pete, but probably worth the visit.
If I’m not mistaken, there is one photo of Belle in colour but most of the photos showing the nose art unfortunately happen to be in black and white.
I’ve also got photos of the contemporary Belle that’s on the airshow circuit if that will help. Beware of the nose art from the movie version Belle – it’s Hollywood, and far from correct.
AVISnowbirds’ Future
Airic – I sure hope you’re wrong. We see a lot of the Snowbirds at airshows down here. Here in the South-East we probably see them perform along with the Blues more than we see the T-birds perform, often in the company of the Skyhawks, the Army Parachute Team.
There’s also much to celebrate about with news of the new government’s policy to fund new equipment for the Canadian Forces – C-17s, new heavy choppers, new trucks for the Army and a push for recruiting in an effort to put more boots on the ground in Afghanistan – all this coming after decades of neglect.
As a former CF Infantry/Airborne officer myself, I’m hoping that this trend continues. The Canadians are among the best disciplined and highly trained soldiers and airmen in the world. Now they’re finally beginning to get some support from home. Personally, I believe that the Snowbirds will still be around, perhaps with new mounts in the near future. You’ve got to admit that they put on a spectacular show. Great for recruiting!
BTW, the last time I was in Picton, all the Tutors and T-Birds were lined up on the tarmac at Mountainview. In a way, it was a sad scene, an end of an era.
AVIVancouver, BC
Hey, Brewerjerry, you’ll love Vancouver – my hometown!
Prettiest city in North America. Salt water in front of you and snow-capped mountains behind!
Now, there are many retread Brits in Victoria, on the Island, which is also beautiful, but nothing like Vancouver. There’s only one Vancouver. You’ll love it there. Good luck!
When you get a chance, drive across the Rockies or take the train to Calgary, Edmonton, or Banff. It’s a wonderful trip with majestic scenery, vastly different from the UK.
Or hop in an airplane and fly. It’s awesome from the air.
AVISnow’s Hawk
That’s one cool profile, eh!
(Transplanted Canuck)
AVIMe 262 Replicas
Nowadays there is not much mention of Steve Snyder, the man who originally conceived, designed the engine installation, and planned the construction of the five Me 262 replicas. Steve’s original plan was to build five replicas, sell four, and to keep one for himself. Without him, there would have been no Me 262 project. The Me 262 project was his baby.
Steve was an avid aviation enthusiast, skydiver and pilot, from his early days in college until the day in 2001 when he was tragically killed in the crash of his F-86.
For example, he and Charlie Hilliard were the first two skydivers in the US to pass a baton in free-fall. (The feat had previously been accomplished in Abbotsford, BC, Canada some weeks earlier.) Today we take for granted the thousands of square parachutes used by skydivers and the military. Steve was the inventor/skydiver who made it happen. Although he did not invent the square parachute, ( a Canadian, Jalbert, did ) he invented the original reefing system which retarded the inflation rate and thus reduced the previously unbearable opening shock, and made square parachutes work. He first introduced Rogallo’s design, the Parawing, to be followed by the Parafoils and Para-Planes, changing free-fall parachuting forever.
Unfortunately, Steve died too soon to see the completion of the first of his 262s, and too soon to be able to make the first test flight in the prototype. He’d been preparing for that first flight and was enthusiastically looking forward to the day when he’d be in the Me 262 cockpit. Too bad it didn’t happen.
With the first flight of the new-build Me 262 imminent in Germany, we should credit Steve Snyder for initiating the project and thank him for his brilliance and his early efforts. He deserves a lot of credit for the project!
AVI
Sign In
