Capitaine Romain would like a lot to get the HMS :
http://blog.francetv.fr/capitaine-romain/index.php/2010/03/20/174190-ce-jeudi-deux-officiers-indiens-ont-vole-sur-rafale–#co

Nous n’avons pas de viseur de casque pour des raisons budgétaires. Le viseur de casque tel que nous pourrions l’avoir est une merveille de technologie qui nous donnerait une bien meilleure efficacité dans un conflit majeur, mais aussi au dessus de l’Afghanistan.

According to him, it’s only a sad matter of money.

The Gerfaut was dropped when the DGA took back the money to fund the AESA.

Thank LM for the F-35. 🙂

Thank who ? They are receiving money, even more than initially planned ! 😀

This is getting pointless

Wow…

Hey Jessmo24 : F-22 IS THE ULTIMATE A2A/A2G FIGHTER that will NEVER BE OUTCLASSED IN ANY ASPECT ! ! !

Are you happy now ? Do you feel better ?

😡

And your wrong you trying to marginalize my argument based on your own bias

😀

Ok… I’ll do it ONCE, just for the fun (it’s not going to last) :

PART 1 :
You said :

It is assumed spectra was off during the BVR episode.

Then, I asked you :

Question : when you try to keep something as a secret, do you turn off both the active and passive part of the system, or only the one which would reveal the secret ?

The answer was : “I would turn the active part of the system off, since the passive would not reveal anything. The active part of the system, also called “jammers”, however, would reveal some top secret knowledge, which might have compromised our nuclear deterrence…”

Where’s my bias ?
I just wanted you to realize that Spectra is not a single piece, but is made of several components (sensors + jammers).

Since all the parts of Spectra obviously weren’t “off”, then, the RWR was probably looking for EM radiations…

PART2 :
You said :

if spectra was on then its even more telling since the missile launch was not detected.

How would a RWR/ESM/MAW/MLD detect a missile launch ?
1) IF the enemy radar is recognized as tracking us as a target ;
2) IF the MLD or MAW detects the heat of the missile or it’s EM signature ;
3) IF the missile turn on its homing radar.

So, I asked you 3 questions :

1) F-22 didn’t use the APG for this but only a passive system -AN/ALR94, how could the Rafale RWR detect a suspicious radar tracking ?

Answer : the APG-77 was not emitting, and because AN/ALR-94 is passive, then, Spectra couldn’t detect anything suspicious before lauch.

2) virtual missile produce no heat, how could the DDM on Rafale detect the missile ?

Answer : Rafale missile detectors looks for missile’s exhaust plume. Since it was an exercize, their were no actual missile shot, thus, Rafale missile detector couldn’t detect a single actual missiles.

3) virtual missile do not really exist, hence, they never actually turn on their homing radar… Tell me how would the Spectra’s RWR detect it ?

Answer : There was no missile at all !

Where’s my bias ?

PART3 :
You said :

You keep trumpeting IR BUt wont acknowledge that the F-22s max missile range is FAAR out of Rafale Ir range. How will the Rafale get in Mica range?

Yes… Amraam C has a greater range than a Mica IR, provided the F-22’s sensors can detect and track the Rafale far enough…
So I asked you a question :

How far could the AN/ALR94 detect, track and allow an Amraam shot ?

Answer : We don’t know ! MAYBE it’s enough to launch Amraam at its full range, MAYBE it’s not enough to exceed the Mica IR’s range. But what’s the problem ? In this scenario, F-22 still was the first to “see”, and the Rafale have to look in the right direction…

So, tell me where i’m wrong, because I’m quite sure who’s using common sens, here, and who’s not !

CONCLUSION :

1. If the spectra WAS ON why didnt it detect the F-22 or the passive launch

If Spectra was “ON” ? LoL Remember Spectra is a passive sensors suit, looking for EM emissions emitted by other aircraft/SAM/etc. F-22 was using a PASSIVE (not emitting) system. You wrote it !

Your claim that the missile was virtual is non starter.

My claim ? You are the one who said that Spectra didn’t detect the missile launch (which is true for OBVIOUS reasons). What was your point ?

If the Rafale had achieved a passive lock and firing solution on the F-22 saying that the missile was virtual and a Passive IR detection cant be simulated would not be an excuse.

I agree… Where did I deny that the missile hit ?

Not to mention the never ending French chest thumping that would saturate the pages of this forum! where is the vaunted jamming? Why didnt it see the F-22 in IR.

Sorry ? Ah ! I understand. This is what we call, in French, “un procès d’intention”. You accuse the evil French of claiming something they didn’t (or… where ?).

2. If the spectra wasnt on then thats not the Raptor drivers problem, a kill is a kill. if your goign to take this route then why not give the typhoon leway when they have a valid excuse for some of the losses.

I wasn’t discussing about this. Only about Rafale vs F-22 in BVR at ATLC according to the more accurate rumors we had about something which is not supposed to have happened.

3. Just acknowledge the fact the the Raptor is superior in every respect, WVR,BVR, sensors, kenamatics, Radar, even as a strike aircraft.

Again, “procès d’intention”. You’re putting thoughts into my mind.
I think that statistically, it will prove. But I also think that it won’t always be black OR white.
Gun dogfights have proved the F-22 pilots they have to keep very careful against some potential threats.
There is nothing to conclude about the BVR engagement.
I’m not sure F-22 is as good as Rafale in all A2G missions.

However, if France had to money, be sure I’d be very happy we had our own F-22 which to me is the ultimate fighter.

Im goign to ssay this bold so I can be sure you under stand my argument.

SPECTRA IS IRRELEVANT WHEN FIGHTING A F-22 its doesnt matter what mode its in, its doesnt matter if its working or not the spectra doesnt matter.

I’m not sure F-22 pilots are as over confident as you are. I believe they are much humbler, open minded, and caring about how using their aircraft as carefully as required against every possible threat.

because even if it COULD detect a F-22 passively there is a speed, altitude, and power disadvanage, in favor of the Raptor.

I know, thanks.

I’m not even discussing the huge superiority of F-22 over Rafale.

:rolleyes:

It is assumed spectra was off during the BVR episode.

Spectra is :
-a set of passive sensors ;
-a set of active jammers.
Question : when you try to keep something as a secret, do you turn off both the active and passive part of the system, or only the one which would reveal the secret ?
:rolleyes:

if spectra was on then its even more telling since the missile launch was not detected.

Yes… Sure…
1) F-22 didn’t use the APG for this but only a passive system -AN/ALR94, how could the Rafale RWR detect a suspicious radar tracking ?
2) virtual missile produce no heat, how could the DDM on Rafale detect the missile ?
3) virtual missile do not really exist, hence, they never actually turn on their homing radar… Tell me how would the Spectra’s RWR detect it ?

You keep trumpeting IR BUt wont acknowledge that the F-22s max missile range is FAAR out of Rafale Ir range. How will the Rafale get in Mica range?

How far could the AN/ALR94 detect, track and allow an Amraam shot ? Maybe not as far as the AGP-77 would have. Maybe not at the max range of Amraam. Maybe not even out of the Mica IR enveloppe.

I’m not even discussing the huge superiority of F-22 over Rafale. But some of your arguments are strange.

can you point out where DSI said that SPECTRA alone can be used to target an aircraft
i cant find that bit

You missed a sentence :

And, December 6, a MICA has been assigned its target – indeed virtually destroyed – only with the SPECTRA system.

They are only happy with what happened in gun WVR, nothing more. And it could have been worst for the Raptor if they had been authorized to pit the Mica IR against Aim-9M.

Well, France has got a lot of merit, facing so much people… British, Americans, Swedes, Italians, who else ?