They need to sell the Arabs whats the point if Israel get a better version ? They wud go and buy PAK FA/.
Null argument.. who is to say that F35 with Israeli native upgrades wont be more capable than Pak FA… in fact who is to say that stock F35 wont be more capable than Pak FA.
I really find this decision very bizzare … unless US is worried that Israel might develop upgrade package that might actually bridge gap to F22, and then export that package to all F35 customers… hence not only threaten f22 supremacy but take away “upgrade” market from LM. Then again this can be easily solved by making sure that IDF keeps its upgrades strictly for its own jets, and not have “Lavi-J10” type incident.
US Trying To Get Israel To Leave Joint Strike Force Program?
In October, the Pentagon approved the sale of 25 F-35 stealth-enabled joint strike fighters to the Israeli Air Force, with an option to purchase up to 50 more. Just last week, I reported that cost overruns that may make the jets cost more than $100 million each were causing the IDF to rethink the purchase. Now, there’s a new problem that should give further pause to Israeli purchases of the jets.
When Israel expressed interest in the jets, it asked to install its own technology on them. This wasn’t just a question of buying Israeli out of patriotism. Israel fears that the jets will be sold to other countries in the region – like Saudi Arabia – and if our own technology is installed it will allow Israel to maintain a qualitative superiority even if the jets are sold to our enemies.
Israeli demands include installing an advanced radar and conformal fuel tank design for long-range missions made by Israel Aerospace Industries, as well as other electronic and weapons systems that could require changes to the configuration of the aircraft.“We have unique needs and need to retain our superiority in the region,” a senior defense official explained. “To meet these needs we must to be able to install our own systems.”
The US is refusing to allow Israel – the first country to whom the jets have been offered which is outside the US and the eight countries who are full members of the Joint Strike Force program – to install its own technology.
Last week, in an interview with Aviation Week, Maj.-Gen. Charles Davis, executive officer of the JSF program, said that Israel would not be allowed to put its own systems in the JSF, also known as the F-35.“They [Israel] are going to buy aircraft that have basically the same capability as all the others,” Davis told Aviation Week. “They are trying to do a requirements analyses for future missions. That [customization] is doable through software. It is not doable by Israelis sticking boxes in the airplane. [Elbit and Elta being involved] is not an option,” he says.
The IDF is now talking about delaying the purchase to some point beyond 2014. That would lower the cost, but would not solve the technology issue. And one cannot help but get the sense that the IDF feels its been had by the Americans:
In the past, officials said, before announcing a decision to purchase an aircraft the MOD first negotiated the installation of Israeli-made systems and then announced that it had made a decision. This, officials said, was the case with the F-15I and the F-16I.However in the case of the JSF, the US refused to conduct the negotiations with the MOD until an announcement that it would procure the plane had been made. The announcement was made in October in an official request to the Pentagon.
A defense industry source familiar with the negotiations between Israel and the US said that the talks were “tough” but predicted that a deal would be reached in the coming months and that Israel would finally place an official order.
You can bet that there’s going to be a lot of pressure placed on Israel to place that order. With a recession on, what is potentially a $75 billion order would be a huge boost for the American defense industries. You would think it would also be an incentive to make the customer king. And that has to make you wonder why the US is suddenly playing hardball.Oh by the way, one of the countries that is a member of the Joint Strike Force is Turkey. Other members include the United Kingdom, Italy, the Netherlands, Canada, Australia, Norway and Denmark, each of whom contributed between $110 million (Denmark) and $2.5 billion (United Kingdom) towards the development costs, with the United States footing the balance of the bill. Israel and Singapore paid $20 million each to receive the lower level status of a ‘security cooperative participant’ in the program.
http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2009/02/us-trying-to-get-israel-to-leave-joint.html
Why are Americans concearned that Israel will have more potent version then them self…
Whether or not the ’29 in any of its variants is as heavy as an Eagle is really neither here nor there. Russia hasn’t built a decent light fighter for decades and they’re losing export customers as a result. That Su-57 or whatever (the half-a-flanker) wasn’t a bad idea. Something Gripen-like that could be made in a bunch of advanced/less advanced variants and sold to East European countries (like Serbia, Croatia, Belorussia etc), SE Asian countris, former Soviet states (i.e. the ‘Stans), Latin American countries and African countries would make a killing.
EDIT: D’oh! – it was the S-54. The Su-57 was a WWII assault gun amongst other things.
I could not agree more, introduce some RSC reductions , advanced avionois EW suite and AESA all as options, and you could give gripen a good run for its money. Advantage of having entire AC coming from one source including weapons, is something to think about compared to mishmash of components from every country in NATO, each one which could cause you headache if they get on the wrong side of you.

And why would you be shooting an ICBM from Iran to Israel? Jeez, you say I’m simplistic, use your head man.
Because as they learned from their neigbour SCUDs are not as effective , easier to track and intercept, easier to knock off before launch , etc. Plus if they ever develop a nuke, due to capacity they will at worse case scenario ever have few dozen warheads… which would be on top of ICBMs if they ever develop one,
I doubt Israel has capability or would risk going at it alone… a repeat of US debackle with hostage rescue would be major blow to Israels “intimidation” levels they rely to keep Arabs from even thinking of something stupid. Do not forget that new US administration is trying to “talk” to whackjob in Iran, they would consider any Israeli solo action as slap in the face.. especially since US tax payer is funding IDF.
US sec. Of State Hillary Clinton was involved in a collision of international significance. It is understood Ms Clinton’s foot collided with private parts of French presided Nicolas Sarcozy , after Frenchman totally by accident and with no real intention paced both of his hands on Ms Clinton’s rear end.
Bill Clinton was reached for comment at local **** and **** bar in down town DC, saying “Yup , She is a ballbreaker… err.. you got change for 20.. i need ones.. SHAKE’M YEEEHHAAAA , Who’s my intern.. “
It is understood Ms Sarcozy is planing to write and star a cabaret play inspired by the incident, she will preform large segments of it in nude.
Not if the target is the US. Who do you think Iran would be shooting an ICBM at Cuba?
How about Israel.. you want them landing in Jordan Syria or Egypt??
The point being creating re-entry whiecle even with 2-3 Mile CEP is still significant technological challange.. when 0.1 of degree error would result in damned thing ending up few hundreds rather than few miles of target.
1. You don’t need 2m dia. (see Minuteman)
2. Reentry tech could be stupid easy if you just need a terror weapon that survives to the ground and it’s okay if it’s off target by a couple miles.
I think you are as usual over simplifying task at hand.. and btw Couple of miles could mean a different country.
I really doubt if Iran has unlimited access to all three.
Besides, their “space rocket” looks like an IRBM booster on steroids for me, and the fact is that they will not master >2m diameter centerbody tech for some years to come. That is the real challenge, together with re-entry tech.
I agree with that
I live on the Southern Peninsula but i haven’t seen a whale in years…would my Mother-in-law suffice???
That word wakes up a small Japanese person in me.. since as soon as i hear it, think about my spear gun and get this urge to harpoon a huge, fat ,slobbering, slow moving pile of blubber… :diablo:
I live on the Southern Peninsula but i haven’t seen a whale in years…would my Mother-in-law suffice???
That word wakes up a small Japanese person in me.. since as soon as i hear it, think about my spear gun and get this urge to harpoon a huge, fat ,slobbering, slow moving pile of blubber… :diablo:
Personally i am more in anticipation to see What MiG will produce in terms of design.
There are lowlifes and people with no moral fiber in every society… Im not shocked that kind on person who sells heroin to 14y olds would do something like looting home where entire family perished..
I prefer to concentrate on positive side ,, the fact that in 2 days people have raised something like 50 million.. and thats excluding corporate donations or government. All the volounteers that are pouring in to face the flame and defend homes of people whom they dont know, but for being their countrymen. The fact that there was 20,000 blood donations in 2 days… (normally its few hundred a day).
The stories of humanity and selflessness far outnumber few miserable creatures looking to profit in this catastrophe.
There are lowlifes and people with no moral fiber in every society… Im not shocked that kind on person who sells heroin to 14y olds would do something like looting home where entire family perished..
I prefer to concentrate on positive side ,, the fact that in 2 days people have raised something like 50 million.. and thats excluding corporate donations or government. All the volounteers that are pouring in to face the flame and defend homes of people whom they dont know, but for being their countrymen. The fact that there was 20,000 blood donations in 2 days… (normally its few hundred a day).
The stories of humanity and selflessness far outnumber few miserable creatures looking to profit in this catastrophe.
I know Steve i cant ******* believe it my self that people would be this reckless. Ive also been thinking that with arsonists still at large, and the fact that number of fires were set in one day some distance apart.. could there be more to this that we not being told?
From Sun Herald
SEVERAL fresh blazes have been deliberately lit as 100 police officers hunt the arsonists believed responsible for lighting some of the deadly Victoria fires.
New fires were detected and put out in the Beechworth area. It is believed police have a description of a car used by those allegedly responsible.
Victorian Premier John Brumby said it was virtually impossible to believe that people would be still lighting fires in the current situation. “There seems little doubt that these were deliberately lit. I think words escape us all when it comes to describing that deliberate arson,” he said.
Community shock and anger at arsonists have spread nationwide as the massive scale of death and destruction have become known.