Modernized Tornadoes? Even Brits dont subscribe to that misguided idea anymore …

How about …

… you can always blame Quebec if Americans ask WTF 😀

Religion is fine so long as they do not try to impose their way of life on to those who do not share their beliefs.

I am yet to find a single religion or religious person which falls into this category.

who needs F35:D

Oh please come on, if the new government knows it was all a scam by Bush and his cronies, which lets be honest about it is what you make it out to be do you not think the latest government, ear wax eater Rudd is it would have stopped this little scam of Bush and co?
Of course he would but it was no scam, hence no enquiry or investigation into the purchase, someones tin foil hat was a little to tightly fitted I think its fair to say. Oh btw just out of interest, what made Howard into Bush’s number one pal? The fact the he, like Bush thought a vicious, brutal and disgusting dictatorship (whose leader was a pedophile) that had bought misery to the middle east in many many ways was not a good thing and should be removed?

This not worth a response .. but against my better judgment ill just say this

and what i said about your presidents actions is not as half as bad as what your current president is saying.

Now back to topic. My brother in law is materials engineer at BHP plant where they cut some components for HMS Collins, he was telling me that quality of metal delivered from Swedes was so poor they junked them and remade them here.

Much more interesting, in my opinion, is the claim of having designed a BVR IR AAM.

I second this…

PS: A stealthy Tomcat… would make some fanbois on this forum drool :diablo::diablo:

Of course people need medical treatments. That does not mean that I have to pay for it.

Perhaps you should look at the amount of debt other nations have vs the size of their economy…

:rolleyes:

1. There are plenty of people who do not want their tax dollars spent on insanely costly military Hardware that gets used once a decade, and that one is more of a token contribution. If you are so much against paying for some poor sods medical treatment so he can live.. how about introducing new tax system where citizen fill on their returns form where they want their tax dollars to go .. something tells me CIA/NSA and DoD budgets would not be as big, while Sicence, Medicine and Social projects would benefit.

2. Out of all “Western” nations USA has one of the largest national debts, as well as budget/trade deficits .. and while it is very true that economic crisis is hitting hard every developed economy in the world (and developing ) … difference is most other countries are accepting reality and curbing spending .. while you are still dreaming of spending trillions on shiny military equipment, you don’t really need or need so much of. You would need even less of it if you chose to tweak your foreign policy not to meddle your fingers into every **** fest on the planet. 😉

Well, the Australian Political and Military Leadership seem to disagree with your position…………….What do they know that you don’ know???

So why are you persisting with claims that USAF needs more F22 than they got.. i mean what do you know that Congress does not …

See i can make idiotic comments too.

Politics means that decisions made sometimes do not always deliver best product for the job.. its the reality of the world. AUS MBT purchase came in dying yer of Howard era.. you know Bush No1 pall.. The fact that there is no mention of Engines in that MoD asesment shows how valid it is.

Which is the main argument of my opinion that M1 was worse choice. Yes both Chalie 2 and M1A2 use Chogum type armor (British invention btw ), and i belive Leo MK2 A6 upgrade are not any less protected. So for the sake of argument say that all 3 MBTs are even match.

So what other deciding factors remain.

Price.. Leo and M1 came second hand refurbished, Challie would have been new, so more costly, but not to the point were it was deal breaker. So lets say once again even Stevens for all 3.

Compatibility and Logistics, Like i said the argument working along side US, does not hold water. Our MBTs are very unlikely to be deployed anywhere in short and long term.. there is too few to begin with, and in any case there are better things we can provide to any future “coalitions”.. like our SAS units, 59 tanks are insignificant. Plus all 3 designs are NATO standard, and all 3 designs have in the past worked together, even in combat. So once again lets say even Steven.

Experience. We have operated Leo 1 for long time, which would Make Leo 2 logical choice. +1 point for Leo 2

Engine. Turbines in tanks are equivalent of Diesels in Aircraft, sorry but that is my opinion and ill never back down. They are fine for American MBT because American MBTs will always operate with US Army logistics behind it.. Australia may not. What if we decide to deploy our M1s to east Timor for example.. No US forces there to “leech “off.. we would have to send Aviation fuel for tanks and Diesel for everything else out army uses.. so why not Diesel for tanks too?? So Both Challie and Leo score, here

Weight.. We have Huge country, **** roads, and rail links. We have to move our hardware by Air or Sea.. and though all MBTs fall into “heavy”, Leo from memory sits just under 62T, Challanger at 63 T, M1 at 70 T.
Again pts for Euros.

In short take the politics out of equation and Leo Mk2 A6 is the logical choice.