Useless discussion………..in times of Crisis or War. No other country could provide the resource, logistics or general support to keep Australia’s Tank Force moving. Further, as I said there is little difference in capability between the two tanks. So, the Abrams is a no brainer.;)

What tank force ?? 59 M1s … you cant be really thinking that 59 tanks would make anything but token contribution to any involvement which would mandate “US support” in logistics.

If the purpose of 59 M1s is to mantain our Tank force and capability (i still think we don’t need MBTs at all ) old leos were more than enough. If you are of the argument that if you are going to have such small amount, and might as well get the best there is, Challanger 2 would have made better option.. and talk about crew protection.. id like to see M1 take hit from MILAN and keep fighting… and … IT DOES NOT NEED GAS PIPELINE TO RUN. Turbines are meant for things that fly, or sail at best… not things that roll on ground. :p

How many use Abrahams??

What nations in ASIA would we ever work “along side” ???

The fact is that we operated A3 Leos for some time, and it would be far more viable from every point of view , logistic, training, etc, to procure 60-70 Ex German Army Leos 2, cheaper too.

australia has a history of purchasing the best and improving it. collins is twice the weapons system that the original design is, as with ASLAV, F-111C, FFGs, R-OTH, steyr, minimi, herstal, FFHs, AWD etc etc. we have the best quantative forces in the world, with some of the best technology. we bought the abrams because its the best. and because once modification to our standars are complete, they will be even better. also provides for easy deployment and reinforcement. if we need more tanks in defence we could get abrams quicker then leo’s, and if we deploy with the USA, we can take over some of there tanks. only thing i dont understand is why we dont have more CH-47s, or dedicated special forces insertion helicopters.

What exactly makes the abrahams the best for AU and our conditions… the fact that you need small gas pumping station every 100km to supply one division?? Our terrain and our conditions require good ol diesel, and Leo2s would be more than adequate, not to mention Chalies 2s. In fact i would argue that we need MBTs at all, only reason Abrahams were purchased is to make it easier to operate with Yanks on overseas deployments.

As for Colins, by the time it became 2x the sub then originally designed, there were 2x Subs in production out there.. and AIP techonollogy slowly came behind the corner. Non the less.. not many diesel subs scored simulated hits against battlegroup carrier and Colins did.. though so did Gotland.

I am assuming you are reffering to Bushmasters?? Yes it would be perfect option for yanks, and cheaper to buys them from AU.. (just ask dutch) but you have to understand that US very very very rarely will purchase external product. They will rather spend 3x as much and redisign copy or what ever , their own. Just look at the hell Marines went trough to get Harriers, and even then compromises were made.. Add to that incredibly powerful defense industry lobby and any foreign product (apart from few small arms) will get torpedoed even if it is better suited and cheaper.

As for Australia, i think we are the global masters when it comes to procuring defense products at incredibly inflated prices.. sometimes we inflate them our self due to stupidity… as in Colin’s class example. By the time we got them up and running as intended they were 3-4x the price of the comparable subs avaliabe for purchase.

Self defence is fine, but if a small reef shark (like the one you’re describing) is in full threat display, it’s not telling you, “Hey, guess what, man? I’m gonna rip your nuts off!” It’s telling YOU to back the hell off.

A

I do back off.. and most of the time no incident.. but ocasionaly as you back off he comes forward .. and reef sharks bite more people than great white. Like i said i never ever want to kill one, but i will not hesitate if i feel im in danger. Sorry but my sorry butt is worth more to me than some shark :p

to quote Dylan Moran on lyrics “Funk Soul Brother” by fatboy slim

“You could dip a broom into diesel fluid , and shove the other end up my ****, and put mi inside an elevator with trampoline in it, and i would write better lyrics on the walls” :D:D:D

hardly compensates for the centuries of looting of wealth and resources that the British did in India..:rolleyes:

Have queen return “the jewel of India” from her crown, back to Taj Mahal were it was “borrowed” from and call it quits… While at it return also “borrowed” national treasures to Greece and Egypt. :rolleyes::rolleyes: