HuntingHawkAbout the Naval and Army section : They still are available in Google Cache. So hurry and save.
Google’s cache of the Naval section
Open the above page , Copy the link location of the topic of your choice and paste in google.
Open cache from the result page.
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HuntingHawkNice summary of world navies, nothing on the US navy though, the smallest on the planet 😀
HuntingHawkNo refurbishment, buddy, this one has taken part on Farnborough 1984 airshow during the times of its delivery.On other pics I got you still can see its UK registration G27-397.
Thank You Flex, did’nt know that.
The pic I found is also a G27-397 (NAF710 Nigerian AF) according to the site .
HuntingHawkcant be astra, not even the ground launched rocket motor trials is started.
Huh ? It’s been tested a couple of times on the ground.Air launches from April 2006 according to Janes.
Meanwhile, India strives to be a peace loving nation wonlee……..
India set for major military expansion in Andamans
By Bappa Majumdar
KOLKATA (Reuters) – India will soon start a major expansion of its military presence in the remote Andaman and Nicobar Islands, a year after the Asian tsunami wrecked defence bases there, a top commander said on Thursday.
The plans include construction of three new air bases to add to the one existing base, increasing coast guard troop levels and strengthening infrastructure at old facilities in the strategically vital archipelago in the Bay of Bengal.
“Our expansion plans are totally transparent and the defensive measures are being taken to ensure the safety and security of the islands only,” said Vice-Admiral Arun Kumar Singh, commander-in-chief of the Andaman and Nicobar Command.
“We have found an unused 3,000-feet World War Two runway in very good condition in Kamorta (island), which we are planning to develop soon,” Singh told Reuters by phone from Port Blair, capital of the island group, referring to one of the three new air bases planned.
Two other air bases would be built in Diglipur and Campbell Bay after small airstrips there are lengthened to handle large transport and fighter aircraft, he said.
The Andaman and Nicobar islands are located about 1,200 km east of the Indian mainland, close to the Malacca Strait, the main sea lane between the Indian Ocean and the South China Sea leading to the Pacific.
India has an air and naval bases and listening posts across the archipelago as it considers the sea routes vital to its security and to guard against what some defence experts say is China’s increasing interest in the region.
Sea routes in the region are known to be used to ship weapons destined for rebels in northeastern India, Myanmar or Bangladesh and drug smuggling. They are also prone to smuggling, piracy, poaching and illegal immigration.
CHINESE WARSHIPS
Besides, the Great Nicobar island lies just 100 km from Sumatra and was considered vulnerable when Indonesian President Sukarno offered to take the islands to help Pakistan during its 1965 war with India.
Vice-Admiral Singh said that the runway in Campbell Bay would also be elevated to keep the sea away and sea walls built to protect personnel and the local population.
“With gadgets like the Instrument Landing System in place, landing in difficult weather conditions won’t be a problem in future either,” he said.
The Andamans were badly hit by the Dec. 26, 2004 tsunami, with more than 3,500 people killed and nearly 40,000 displaced.
The dead included about 110 air force personnel and their families on the Car Nicobar base, which suffered extensive damage due to the giant waves.
But the facility was quickly repaired and the Indian Air Force even conducted exercises involving Sukhois and Jaguar fighters in what was seen as a signal to the world that New Delhi’s defence installations were back in good shape.
Many Indian defence experts believe that China has military or intelligence facilities on Myanmar’s Coco Islands, a few miles away from India’s Diglipur, 185 km north of Port Blair.
Although the Indian naval chief last August said that he believed a Myanmar official statement that there were no such Chinese facilities on Coco, other Indian defence officials feel New Delhi could not let its guard down.
“In the recent past, we noticed a Chinese ship being escorted by two Chinese warships just south of Campbell Bay,” Singh said. “However, there is no military threat to the region at all.”
HuntingHawkI was trolling the net searching for pics of Nigerian Jaguars a couple of weeks back (was actually searching for a pic of an adour mk 102/104 and got sidetracked) , and all I could find was this one Nigerian Jaguar, apparently undergoing some sort of a refurbishment in the UK. Hopefully this is’nt the only pic out there.
HuntingHawkThe thing is each time there are any debate. The indians will bring up the dictator, drones, oppressed people, brainwash, commie, chinco, tibet and etc etc which had nothing to do with the topics.
Kyli no offence, but why dont you go back and read post number 42 and see who introduced words such as ‘communist’, ‘free nation’. Please use the Ctrl-F button on your keyboard to search for those words. It cant be too hard to see who introduced what and when, can it ? This discussion was perfectly on track ,Harry had even pointed out why India’s aviation was lagging untill that particular user had to barge in and spoil it all for us.
HuntingHawkSo the hypocritical poster is still at it and spouting his nonsense , sigh !
So lets examine his post again :
Actually, it’s more to do with Indians insulting Chinese people about “dictators” when Indians suffer far more poverty and live much shorter and more brutish lives than Chinese.
Actually it is you folks who repeatedly bring up that China is a communist dictatorship as a convenience
Simply amazing ! Anyone with a little reading ability need only read post number 42 written by the same little idiot to see who brought up the “communist” VS “free country” thing. In fact you need only press Ctrl-F to search and see that no one even brought up the “Democracy” or “Communist” word before that post of his/her.Just to refresh people’s memories : His infamous words
And all this after his infamous :
“Why not discuss the Taiwanese, Korean or Japanese industries in comparison to China?”
“So what reason is there to compare India to China and vice versa?”
Post no: 28 , in case anyone is interested. In fact every single post of his after that one compares India to China . :rolleyes:
A convenient way to ignore the fact that there is no viable comparison between China’s aviation industry which exports fixed wing aircaft in the hundreds and an India one that exports nothing but excuses.
It’s extremely convenient for people like him to forget that India did not have the rights to resell the aircraft’s . We did not export aircraft’s because we did not have the rights to. We decided not to violate the understanding we had with the manufacturers , now is that such a bad thing to do ? In fact if you look at all the cloned aircraft’s China exported :Y-5, Y-7, Y-8. Y-12, H-5, H-6, J-6, J-7, JJ-5, JJ-6, JJ-7, K-8, CJ6A, Z-5, Z-9 (List provided by the same poster) . Guess how many are Chinese ? :rolleyes: Quite an achievement, but not the same as exporting your own aircraft , I’m sure everyone will agree.
In fact, even after exporting all these aircraft’s, the J-10 had 6 prototypes in the year 2000. Yes, 6 prototypes in 2000 !. Amazing, even after all the mighty exports that China had of xeroxed aircraft’s, all they managed was a 6 year lead over puny hungry India ? And the J-10 still flies with a foreign engine, the fact that they cant even put on a decent homegrown engine after all these years of exporting aircrafts left and right , and they still have to go back and beg for engines from the Russians shows a gross incompetence, don’t you think ?
I think India gave a Dhruv to Nepal who in turn was trying to negotiate for Z-9s.)
Gee,I guess why ? That must automatically mean that the Chinese Xeroxed Z-9’s are better :rolleyes:
India stopped all arms transfers to Nepal when the king of Nepal overthrew an elected democratic government. Look where an autocratic regime turns to for help first . :rolleyes:
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The above were the extent of his “aircraft related” posts. And then he says : //”If they stuck to aviation, there would be less flaming but also less talk period because there is simply no comparison.”
Yeah ,This is the same guy who in post number 42 brought up the whole communist VS Free state argument, and he talks about sticking to topic :rolleyes: . He also brings up his economy related posts where , oh poor India is so poor, and the mighty Chinese are so much more richer,while the Chinese are bound to progress, the Indians will stay in the same place. And yet if we examine China’s state a couple of years back, we’ll find they are in exactly the same state India is in now !
Talking about consumption figures, India has among the world’s fastest growing consumption figures,the largest number of Billionaires in Asia, the largest number of mobiles being added per month in the world, etc, etc.
The Chinese have a few years lead in consumption figures, nothing that wont be achieved by India in a few couple of years and he starts his boasts based on that ? So the Chinese are ahead by a couple of years, big freaking deal.No one is denying that China is a little bit ahead, but to hear this hypocrite talk, it’s like the Indians are never going to progress and it’s only the Chinese who will.Talk about being racist :rolleyes: All these only serve to divert attention from the topic at hand of which he has poor knowledge.
I see he still has failed to provide any evidence in the ” U.S. Nuclear Primacy” thread where he claims one and all to be a racist.
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Im just thinking.Do most of the indian members live in india?.
Most Indians I know who post here are indeed from India, can we say the same about most Chinese ? I sincerely hope the attitude displayed by GD is not one that of the mainland Chinese.Any comment that I may have made of him, please do not think I think the same of all Chinese, I sincerely respect the Chinese, and I do understand people like GD exist on both sides.
HuntingHawkYes i claimed i always claimed even if someone takes me out of context
Can you quote me in context please. i just love being quoted out of context. You forgot this bit at the end
“I dont know how much larger now but double the size if memory serves me correctly”As sure i thought the indians would jump on this. I wasn’t. repeat WASN’T. putting down indian technology or your economy but was on the lines about indian bureaucracy and its relation to the LCA project. eg the reason why its still behind. Jesus talk about taking offence at the littlest things
Sigh ! Still no evidence for your own statement ? You’ve posted what ? 10 posts in this thread after the first one and all anyone expected out of you was to back up your statement with proof .
No one is taking offence at the silliest things, but perhaps it would be better if you didn’t mention your “facts” or rumours which you cannot backup with proof (putting it politely).
HuntingHawkHH, I heard on the news that India has 23 billionaires (highest in Asia) and China has only 8. I was quite pleasantly surprised to hear this.
BTW, the PRC posters think that if they stick their heads in the sand and keep repeating ‘China considers India irrelevant’ a million times, somehow it will become true. Let them live their fantasy world. They think they should be compared to extremely advanced nations like Japan, which look down upon chinese and treat them like s*it.
Everybody in the west and in Asia compares China and India, whether the chinese posters here like it or not. Heck even the chinese themselves want to get a piece of the giant cricketing pie. (So much for China does not care about india :rolleyes: )
But stick your heads in the sand and keep mumbling away, if it makes you feel better.
You know BVK, this thread was going fine, until one idiot barged in and started saying India and China shouldn’t be compared and that India should be ignored.
The funny thing is that in this thread started by a Chinese Internet poster ,that particular idiot then goes on to mention and compare India in every single post of his.Talk about being a hypocrite ! :rolleyes:. Since he was unable to stick to the topic he then goes on to compare economies and societies and whatnots.
Now I admit I’m also guilty of falling into his nonsensical mumblings , maybe if that particular idiot would stick to the topic at hand (LCA’s and J-10’s) maybe we could have a saner discussion or as usual sink into a discussion where only insults are traded when evidence is scarce.
Anyways apologies from me for going off topic.
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So on the subject of sticking to the topic ……
ChinaWhite could you please provide evidence to your claim of India having twice the number of engineers in the 80’s ?
As you claimed in post number 21 :
“”On a seperate note you should compare 😀 chinese and indian avation industries in the 80s. India had double the amount of engineers and was set to take off.””
HuntingHawkGood for you. But why should India be compared with China? The TC-2, the F-CK-1 single seater and the F-CK-1 two-seater program are already in production.
The PL-11 had been carried for years on J-8IIs. The double-seater J-10 flies and is production. There are over 100 J-11s. There first MKI was assembled only months ago.
So why compared these new Indian programs that has almost no physical impact on the IAF with the PL-11, PL-12, J-10B and the J-11 that are in PLAAF regular units.
And good for you too, but I was only pointing out to SOC, that China funding more projects currently than India may not be exactly true, although the volumes are higher and different projects are different stages of completion. Unless someone can prove me wrong and list out all the projects that India and China are funding.
Although I don’t understand why you got your panties in a knot over a post that wasn’t even directed at you ?
There is no reason for China and India to be compared. It would make far more for China to be compared with its neighbors to the east.
Again I don’t understand , why are you least bothered with a post not even directed at you ? If you were worried with the comparison , you would have wisely kept away from the thread, but you didn’t. In-fact, you followed up your initial post with subtle insults. Like: “The J-10 doesn’t officially exist and the LCA is a non-entity in the aviation world. It’s the shadow versus the irrelevant.”
Now that was just the first post, in-fact for a person who didn’t want the two to be even compared , you’ve mouthed the ‘India’ word in every following post of yours.
Now some people might think that after China supplied it’s most ‘advanced’ weapons to a Terrorism supporting nuclear armed Dictatorship, in India’s region , the J-10 and FC-1 ‘s and what not’s, it merits a comparison with the LCA’s of this world, after all it was a Chinese Internet poster who started the topic.
For an economy that is only two and a half times the size of China’s, India’s defense budget is only 30 percent size of China’s $20 billion to 35 billion.
No our economy is not “”two and a half times the size of China’s”” :rolleyes:
PPP India : $ 3,678,000,000,000 China: $ 8,158,000,000,000
GDP India : $735.6 billion (2005 est.) China: $1.833 trillion (2005 est.)
And I’m sure all the Intel agencies agree with you about China’s 30 Billion $ arms figure. :rolleyes:
In 2005, India imported more arms than China. But China consumed 10 times more refrigerators and air conditioners. That pretty much tells you who is putting more emphasis on arms.
Who freaking cares ? Let me post what I posted and before your comment and what you were replying to: “Unfortunately or fortunately in India , you cannot increase the defence budget in India easily, the government/people/me have concerns other than defence spending.” .
That is what I said.
Now , do you even see if I even mentioned China ? For a person who rabidly advices people to stop comparing India and China , you sure have trouble following your own advice . I mean I knew you were a little Chinese racist from the way you backed away from the ” The Rise of U.S. Nuclear Primacy” thread when asked for evidence, but here you act hypocritical too. Try following your own advice before preaching please.
India has no long-term threats. Pakistan is strictly in defensive mode and so is the rest of South Asia. China ignores India and is focused almost exclusively in its east.
Superb gems from you as usual, now if you could only possibly keep on believing that while the rest of us could carry on……..
And about India’s long term threats , we’ll decide for ourselves ,thank you.
HuntingHawkThat doesn’t mean anything. You have to consider the fact that China has a lot more current projects that it’s funding, and some of them, like the new Type 094 SSBN, can be on the expensive side. They’re developing new ICBMs, new SSNs and SSBNs, a whole new line of modern surface combatants (it’s about time), the J-10, the FC-1, the KJ-2000, various xeroxed An-12 special mission versions, the PL-12, the J-11B, they bought the Su-30MKK and Su-30MK2 recently…and the list goes on. China may have a larger budget, but they are also spending on more, and in some cases more expensive, projects. So just saying “well China spends more so no wonder India’s stuff is behind schedule” is not a very valid assessment of the situation.
I don’t understand ,for every program you mentioned up there , there’s an alternative Indian program going on as well :
//They’re developing new ICBMs, new SSNs and SSBNs
So is India. Agni-3 is up and ready for testing (and awaiting the political signal) and people would argue we wouldn’t want a larger range than that(For obvious reasons). No pure SSN’s for India , but an SSBN (The Advanced Technology Vessel , which some say might be a hybrid SSN and an SSBN combined (just an internet rumour of course, please treat it with the extreme caution it requires))
//a whole new line of modern surface combatants (it’s about time)
Delhi Class ,P15 ,P17 ,A whole new freakin carrier 😉
// the J-10, the FC-1, the KJ-2000,
LCA , AWACS project to be mounted on an Embraer platform ?
//various xeroxed An-12 special mission versions
No Photocopied/Xeroxed An-12’s for India but they are supposed to be working with the Russians(Ilyushin) on the MTA (Medium Transport Aircraft) Il-214-100 (Passengers-100) and the Il-214 T (Cargo)
//the PL-12, the J-11B, they bought the Su-30MKK and Su-30MK2 recently…and the list goes on.
The Astra, the double seater LCA , the MKI ?
Now for some of these projects , you could point out that we are still in the early stages, but that still does not mean funding is not required for them. Also add our bureaucracy and red tape and I’m surprised we even came this far.
(And I’ve seen you Americans and Britishers and Brazilians et al.. whine and bitch about your own governments inefficiency, come to India I say, our parliamentarians are louder and nastier than yours any day 😀 )
You want to say India can not catch up but that is so irrealistic, if India`s defence spending is smaller is no less efficient but undoutedly they need more money to keep so many projects and turn more projects into reality.
Unfortunately or fortunately in India , you cannot increase the defence budget in India easily, the government/people/me have concerns other than defence spending.A lower military budget may also prevent us from rabbitising our aircraft production and numbers. Increasing the military budget may be easier ,say in a regime unanswerable to it’s people , but in India, the politician does not get elected next time around for not implementing people related programs.
Plus we are lucky in that our major short term threat is only a nation propped up with external aid and whom we more than dominate militarily/economically/whatever. (Timbuktu , ofcourse 😀 , before anyone starts frothing at the mouth)
Long term threats ? We’ll have to wait and see, but I can already see who that will be (look for one proliferating missiles to one and all) 🙂
Something seems to be going right in India or we wouldn’t be having an 8 % growth rate or adding the highest number of mobile users in a month in the world or having the highest number of Billionaires in Asia (when even 10 years ago , even thinking such a thing could be blasphemous). Heck, this is not even the start, if you notice our population profile, our fastest growth will occur in the 2015 and later period when the maximum number of working Indians will hit the workforce. For all it’s faults no one in India would want to live in a regime where people are run over by tanks or forced to move at a moments notice in the name of advancement. If we can have a growth rate of 8+ % preserving our rights without purging millions, we’ll be pretty happy.
So people, don’t worry, have curry 🙂 The LCA will come when it comes, heck it’s nearest competitor still has a foreign engine ,internet poster’s claims not withstanding .
PS. Google(dont be evil except when your in ……) spell rocks…….
HuntingHawkApologies if posted before : HSTDV (Thanks to Rakall ,BR)
HuntingHawkhttp://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/mar112006/state193992006310.asp
HAL gets canards for SU-30 MKI jets
DH News Service Bangalore:
Dynamic Aerospace, a private sector company on Friday handed over the first set of canards for the SU-30 MKI fighter jets to Hindustan Aeronautics Limited.
Hindustan Aeronautics Limited will be manufacturing a series of the Russian SU-30 MKI in India for the Indian Air Force. The first indigenously produced canards by Dynamic Aerospace were handed over to the Managing Director (MIG Complex) K P Puri. Dynamic Aerospace has started indigenously producing all major control surfaces including the vertical and horizontal stabilisers, vertical fins and canards for the SU-30 MKI project. The company was also one of the development partner with the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) for the Pilotless Target Aircraft Programme, Lakshya.
HuntingHawkYawn India only spends slightly less than 2.5% of gdp on defence and the poverty rate has been falling by 1% on average per year since 1977 and real gdp at constant prices is now growing by more than 8%. Of course i fail to see what this has to do on a Pakistani missile thread. 🙂
Aww comeon Sameer, you spoil everything by pulling people out of their hashish induced dreams.It was TinWingy in the other thread and SLL here. 😀
Perhaps his pity should be reserved for countries who arent propped up by foreign aid/debt rescheduling and overrunning Jihadis ? (I’m talking of Timbuktu off course, before people get at my throat 🙂 )
HuntingHawkthe new “Munna” :p
A cartoon from the daily times ? Of course the editors there know better, what with their ‘invisible targets’ and ‘inner shell’ guidance and all. 😀
Re. the no 1,2,3 . Arent we getting a bit ahead of ourselves ? There’s no reason the nos 1,2,3 will be at 1 or 2 or 3. Heck 3 could be 1 and 2 could be 3 for all we know. I mean a projected growth rate is not the same as having done it. And growth rates for today wont be the same as tomorrow.
Speculation is just that.Maybe the country which is expected to have the biggest working population in the future will be the top dog ? But who knows, how does it matter what a stupid rice eater like me thinks ? 😀
Like the guy who invented the light bulb said, in the end cant we all be friends and let sleeping dogs lie ?
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