Selling older boats to Pakistan sounds like a good way for China to maintain SSK development, production and fleet modernisation. I had wondered what they were going to do about that eventually, given that they’re up to 40+ modern SSKs.

I wonder what boats China and Pakistan are looking at … late 035s or early 039s? The Kilos will probably have to be flogged off elsewhere when the time comes. I think they were trying to offload the 877 Kilos to Indonesia a couple years back.

I doubt they are negotiating for older boats given the price of 8-10 billion being mentioned. Also there is a reference to Yuan-class Type-041.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1173159

Burma to purchase JF-17

http://thediplomat.com/2014/06/burma-to-purchase-chinese-pakistani-jf-17-fighter-jets/

That story is from June 2014!

Are you sure they are Block IIs? The serial numbers would suggest late production Block I aircraft, although I think the JF-17 at the end of the line up in the second PIC appears to have a IFR probe with a cover on it?

That is a Mirage with IFR.

And how can ypu know what the IAF and Indian intel knew? The IAF does not depend on the online enthusiast community from Pak def fora to judge what PAF can or cannot do. They have access to both internal and external domain experts plus the usual espionage, arms vendors info etc etc.

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Sorry didn’t get you. I think intelligence agencies would include Indian intelligence as well! Exactly my point, perhaps only the Indian intelligence might have known everything but even than things can be missed (Kargil, Mumbai etc being some of the examples) No one can claim to be all knowing.

Well, it’s not like anyone believes that the PAF could ever deal a decisive blow to the IAF. But the question is will it be able to prevent the IAF from having an overwhelming advantage in any future war scenario. The IAF may incur serious losses but would the PAF be left as a fighting force? Agreed that today the PAF isn’t quite as weak as it was during the Kargil War, but what about 2025? the IAF in 2025 will look quite a bit different from what it does today, so what are the realistic options to stay at par technologically at least, if not numerically (which will be impossible).

Asymmetric warfare using “non-state” actors is a tactic that Pakistan will never stop using. But that has nothing to do with the situation in the air. The PAF is banking very heavily on the JF-17 but just how good will it be against the FGFA, Super-30, Rafale or Su-30MKI leave alone the Mirage-2000-5, MiG-29UPG, Tejas Mk2 or a MiG-29K? In sheer numbers alone, the Super-30 and Su-30MKI fleet will be larger than the entire JF-17 fleet.

Banking on the F-16 to provide the cutting edge out to 2030 seems like a proposition fraught with risk. If the relationship with the US deteriorates and spares and weapons supplies stop, then what happens to the PAF?

2030? Hand on heart had a Pakistani had told me 15 years ago that they will have the following, I would have laughed at their face.

– 4 Air to air refulers
– 5+ AWACS from 2 countries
– 70+ F-16s including Block 52s
– Air launched cruise missiles
– Ground Launched cruise missiles
– 500+ BVR missiles
– 100 New Anti radiation missiles
– Tactical nuclear weapons (Nasr? etc)

Each and every purchase above has been a surprise. And if Indians are only preparing based on the assumptions in the last few posts, than god help them.

10 years is a very long time in this part of the world. Who knew 10 years ago that India would be flying P8is and Pakistan would get new Block 52+

Most of Pakistan’s acquisitions have been out of the blue (Block 52, Mar 1, Erieye to name a few) unlike the very public drawn out processes in India so anything can happen.

AFAIK most AMRAAM’s for east Asian customers are stored in Guam. Would be interesting to know where the weapons for mid eastern countries are stored.

So why buy AMRAAM? It’s like paying for a car but leaving it at the delaers!
Wouldnt it make sense to buy what you can really use? or is it like a joint pool where you have a set upper limit and pay for what you actually use?

Let’s put it simply. A UAE pilot cannot plan his mission without US officers in the loop, and even can’t jump into a F-16 without US approval (birds are guarded by US MP…) Many AMRAAM bought by foreign countires are stockpiled in the US.

I wouldnt even take that with a pinch of salt.

I doubt there is a secret formula to plan a mission which only US pilots know and have not been shared with UAE. UAE has good relations with a lot of countries which operate F-16s.

These are just F-16s not B-2 stealth bombers on loan to UAE!! And no one would buy AMRAAM if they will only be sent via Fedex 2 days after a war started