BuranBuran, if you really believe they didn’t know where he was then you are deluding yourself….I’ll leave it at that.
That’s your personal opinion, we don’t have any evidence to suggest either way. Plus had ISI known they wouldn’t have let US know about the couriers whereabouts, that’s like shooting themselves in the foot.
The Pakistani intelligence is so upset because they are saying that we passed on all the raw intelligence to CIA, without following it up. CIA was in a much better position to analyse this. Had they known CIA would go its own way, ISI would have kept things to themself.
But we may never know what happened. All we know is Americans came got their guy and went back, but most importantly are still going to pay 3 billion to Pakistan.
BuranBuran, if you really believe they didn’t know where he was then you are deluding yourself….I’ll leave it at that.
That’s your personal opinion, we don’t have any evidence to suggest either way. Plus had ISI known they wouldn’t have let US know about the couriers whereabouts, that’s like shooting themselves in the foot.
The Pakistani intelligence is so upset because they are saying that we passed on all the raw intelligence to CIA, without following it up. CIA was in a much better position to analyse this. Had they known CIA would go its own way, ISI would have kept things to themself.
But we may never know what happened. All we know is Americans came got their guy and went back, but most importantly are still going to pay 3 billion to Pakistan.
BuranLet them fuss all they want. I’m glad we did it without saying anything to them. As far as I’m concerned they have a lot of explaining to do and were it me in charge (thankfully it’s not), I’d seriously consider severing relations with them altogether.
I’ll be criticized strongly for my opinions on this matter (by many here no doubt), but I have said it before and I’ll say it again…I don’t trust the Pakistanis. I haven’t for a number of years now, and I dearly wish we would stop sending arms shipments their way.
I always had a strong inkling that bin Laden was in Pakistan (I realize hindsight is 20/20 and many people will probably not believe me when I say that, but that’s the truth), and this whole story pretty much confirms what I had feared…although I was quite shocked that he was located so close to Islamabad…
Cutting off your nose to spite the face?
Everyone knows there are 2 forces in Pakistan, US is supporting one of them. All or nothing approach is not going to work with Pakistan. Take what you can and deal with it. They have other friends in the region as well who would like nothing more than US leaving Pakistan to them.
Would US have captured the 600 other Al Qaeda members had Pakistan not been playing ball? American are sounding very high and mighty but if CIA with a budget of more than $40 billion, can miss 11 people who lived and trained in US before murdering 3000 people. Why can’t ISI with a budget of just $75 million miss 1 guy who was off the grid and didn’t leave his house for 5 years? What’s so hard to swallow?
Any Pakistani would want their intelligence agencies to stop the suicide bomber who might kill their families, rather than waste resources on a non-operational figurehead so US could get some political mileage out of it.
BuranLet them fuss all they want. I’m glad we did it without saying anything to them. As far as I’m concerned they have a lot of explaining to do and were it me in charge (thankfully it’s not), I’d seriously consider severing relations with them altogether.
I’ll be criticized strongly for my opinions on this matter (by many here no doubt), but I have said it before and I’ll say it again…I don’t trust the Pakistanis. I haven’t for a number of years now, and I dearly wish we would stop sending arms shipments their way.
I always had a strong inkling that bin Laden was in Pakistan (I realize hindsight is 20/20 and many people will probably not believe me when I say that, but that’s the truth), and this whole story pretty much confirms what I had feared…although I was quite shocked that he was located so close to Islamabad…
Cutting off your nose to spite the face?
Everyone knows there are 2 forces in Pakistan, US is supporting one of them. All or nothing approach is not going to work with Pakistan. Take what you can and deal with it. They have other friends in the region as well who would like nothing more than US leaving Pakistan to them.
Would US have captured the 600 other Al Qaeda members had Pakistan not been playing ball? American are sounding very high and mighty but if CIA with a budget of more than $40 billion, can miss 11 people who lived and trained in US before murdering 3000 people. Why can’t ISI with a budget of just $75 million miss 1 guy who was off the grid and didn’t leave his house for 5 years? What’s so hard to swallow?
Any Pakistani would want their intelligence agencies to stop the suicide bomber who might kill their families, rather than waste resources on a non-operational figurehead so US could get some political mileage out of it.
BuranWell, I can’t wait to see the headcam vids on LiveLeak.
Of course there will be reprisal attacks, there always will be so long as the despicable idiots teach the gullible about the pathetic aspects of their dying Religion.
And, the 72 Virgins is also up for debate, the literal meaning (IRC) is 72 clean animals.
Its not literal at all. In old Arabic the word for seventy was used just as we use the word dozens in english. We dont really means 12,24 or 36. Similarly when in Islam things are mentioned in 70’s , they mean many not 70 exactally.
BuranWell, I can’t wait to see the headcam vids on LiveLeak.
Of course there will be reprisal attacks, there always will be so long as the despicable idiots teach the gullible about the pathetic aspects of their dying Religion.
And, the 72 Virgins is also up for debate, the literal meaning (IRC) is 72 clean animals.
Its not literal at all. In old Arabic the word for seventy was used just as we use the word dozens in english. We dont really means 12,24 or 36. Similarly when in Islam things are mentioned in 70’s , they mean many not 70 exactally.
BuranThe US should definitely urge the Pakistanis in no uncertain terms that they need to return the wreckage immediately.
So US should say, we think you are either involved or incompetent, but dont dare give access to China, your neighbour and the only country which has stood by you while we humiliate your military.
A big ticket item from US is unlikely to be gifted to Pakistan any time soon. China on the other hand provided Pakistan from missiles to the nuclear warhead designs.
BuranHave you been reading PakDef? 🙂 The latest piece of genious consensus is that the raid was actually conducted by the Pak army, they told the Yanks, who came in and swooped away OBL’s carcus.
I only realised today that PakDeaf forum is a Govt mouth piece, any comment other than the part line is frowned upon and the member dealt with.
Their brains refuse to accept the fact that ISI has been proven as incompetent in front of the entire world. If indeed Pakistan was involved than it’s even worse that they are taking all this stick for some US aid.
Anyhow, is there any electronic gadgetry near the tail boom which Pakistanis could look into?
BuranPakistani never had Tomahawk.Maybe Harpoon u mean?
Some of the 75, which crashed during the attack on bin laden camps in Afghanistan.
BuranSo, are the Pakistanis going to give the wreckage back to America (the country which bankrolls half of the Pakistani military), or is it off to China with it?:confused:
Edit: make that 25% of Pakistani military spending coming from US:
Why are they covering the wreckage? They apparently did hand over the Tomahawk missiles to China in late 90’s.
No one in the Pakistani govt would allow Osama to be caught in that area. Had Pakistan known, they would have taken him to the tribal region and let Americans loose on him.
As someone has said, they are either involved or incompetent. My guess is both.
BuranI think he hit the wall with his tail when coming down into the courtyard. Simply broke off, which would point to a very light “plastic” fuselage, and they thermited what was left, which would just melt.
A true disposable helicopter! very interesting.
BuranI agree with Fedaykin, if it’s based on the Comanche programme, then it will be based on all apsect stealth features. Would be fascinating to see the airframe. It does pose some serious questions regarding the PAF radar coverage though. However, would the choppers have had enough fuel for this mission of they did indeed fly in from Afghanistan?
Regarding PakDef…hardly surprising considering the conspiracy theories and utter mindless comments from most of the posters on the site. I’ve been banned several times in the past for asking sensitive questions, and with the current events, most of their members are now realising the reality. Best to avoid the site, or unless you feel like having a good laugh at some of the comments 🙂
According to one report I read, forgot the source. There were 4 helicopters, 2 of these were refuelling helicopters.
US wouldn’t have taken his body to Carl Vinson on a helicopter, all the way from Afghanistan. Did they already have a C-2 in Afghanistan to transport the body or did Mr Bin Laden ride in a F-18 on his last trip? We may never know.
BuranAlas that is a difficult situation to be in and you are right but what can you do?[/url]
Atleast expose them for what they are!
The ADAD looks interesting. One would have thought this would be a standard fit for any strategic location, like the military academy. If it wasn’t before, maybe now it will be.
BuranWell if the helicopter is levering Comanche program technology whatever crashed probably offers radar, acoustic and IR stealth. The question is whether this is a modified helicopter or something new designed from the ground up.
Hardly surprising that you would get a ban from Pakdef for suggesting ISI involvement, this is a highly sensitive issue for Pakistan.
Sensitive or not, It’s always sad when people start banning their own citizens for questioning the government. I only asked a question which appeared on some Middle Eastern papers today. Let them live in denial if they want to.
Also I saw an interview with a Pakistan Army helicopter pilot who graduated from the same military academy and have flow into that valley many times. He said that there is no way that a helicopter coming into that area would have been able to avoid detection. Now it turns out there is a way.
Is there any non radar based technology which could be used to detect low flying helicopters?
Buranso instead of a a remote Afghan cave
he was found in a Pakistani luxury mountain?good game Pakistan. biting the hand that feeds you.
Any one with a single brain cell would do the same as what Pakistan has done. They have been forced into this war by US.
One day West will cut and run like they always do. Why should Pakistan be left to pick up the pieces again? They will do the minimum possible to avoid a confrontation with the West.
The deal with Bin Laden was, we will neither hunt you down nor give you any support. You are on your own. If someone else gets you, so be it.
Sign In
