Why? I didn’t bring it up. If someone has a point to make let them bring the facts…

You should be familiar with an incident like this if you are arguing about Soviet border incursions/civilian airliner shoot downs. It demonstrates a large degree of ignorance and arrogance.

I also suppose that if you don’t bring something up, there is no reason to learn/research about the topic either. We are only talking about things here that Garry B knows about, please no one else bring up anything Garry doesn’t know. If he doesn’t already know it, it is completely irrelevant to this conversation!

Sounds like hard luck but have heard plenty of occasions where the west has baited the Soviets into turning on radars and using radios so they can monitor callsigns and determine defences to find weaknesses all for the purpose of planning flight routes for bombers and designing their EW equipment. Hard to blame someone for shooting first and asking questions later if your neighbours do that all the time.

Yea, I suppose only the west and “neutral” Sweden partook in any EW espionage. The Soviets were totally in the right for shooting down the DC-3 over 100 kms from their border and then shooting down the Catalina that was looking for it, cuz you know, a Catalina taking part in an obvious SAR mission is certainly baiting you to turn you radars on and “spy” on you.

Taking a shortcut to save some fuel is not the same as what the west was trying to do on Soviet borders.

Never said it was but you said.

What other country has had its airspace so regularly violated?

The answer is Austria.
But I guess it doesn’t **** them off or anything, i mean, geez, they are just trying to save fuel and help the enviorment. And its only sovereign airspace, no big deal. Its fine then! 😉

Came down within SOVIET borders? Gee that doesn’t sound like an airspace violation. The fact that it was forced to land suggests there wasn’t a shoot first policy perhaps?

Do a little research.

Hint- KAL flight 902.

It was SHOT DOWN, however it managed a crash landing near Murmansk, not the Kamchatka Peninsula.

As for the Swedish DC-3 it was shot down over international waters near the island of Gotland, a Catlina rescue aircraft was shot down 3 days later searching for it.

.

There is no chance the Chinese would have sold the USA F-7s. The aircraft were probably acquired from Egypt or some other similar source as a way of assessing the state and quality of what was then the cutting edge of Chinese jet aircraft production technology rather than that they were intended for use as aggressors.

We sold them Blackhawks… I see no reason they wouldnt sell us F-7s.

F-15’s FF was 1971. Hence battle experience from Vietnam was only partly included. Shortcomings really became apparent in the operation rolling thunder, but ~5 years is a bit short to develop a new aircraft from the scratch.

What book are you reading? I might be able to get my hands on some more stuff for you, I am somewhat of a Boyd afficando. I just dont know if I brought it to Sweden with me or not. I’ll try to dig some stuff up. I’ll also try to write a summary of EM thoery when I am not drunk.