Nope, The air force wanted something completey different for the F-15, they basically wanted another heavy pig.
I am sorry but I stand by my earlier comment. I have the documentation right here in my hand, please refer to page 98 of Mind of War “Without Boyd, there might not have well been an F-15.”
This is only one sentence in two very in depth chapters concerning the devlopment of the F-15.
I am sorry but you are mistaken that Boyd wanted it killed, rather he made it the success it is today.
I will not argue or comment further on the matter. You can believe what you wish…
refer to these 2 minute explanations of Boyd… it states what i just said
http://www.aviation-history.com/airmen/boyd.htm
http://www.saunalahti.fi/fta/JohnBoyd.htm
You should read Mind of War and the others things I mentioned, I think it would help clear some things up. It should be mandatory reading for all in this forum 😉
well, the files are from CDI, a Washington think tank that is comprised mostly of military men.
some points they mentioned:
-Israel valued their Mirage IIIs more than their F-4’s in air to air combat
-Pakistani F-86’s achieved more kills than their larger Indian counterparts
-Me 262s were superior, but overcome by larger number of inferior P-51s, etc
-quantity is emphasizedsome suggestions they make or imply:
-the next fighter should be around 11 million
-the next fighter should be physically small
-the next fighter should have a bubble canopy and good rear view
-The F-5 and earlier F-16s were the closest to their ideal design, and in some ways, so was the F-104
-the next fighter should be bought in quantity and overwhelm the opponents
-the next generation aerial warfare will see aircraft turning their radars off
Yes, i am familiar both with CDI and Pierre Sprey…
I’d like to suggest some reading for ya… Read Mind of War by Grant Tedrick Hammond, then read some of John Boyd briefings, (He only wrote one book for the USAF in the 1960’s, rest of material is in epicly long briefings, look at USMC archives for this) Concentrate on his EM theories and the later thoeries he had about OODA and its relation to temporal warfare. This should start to answer some of your questions. Then move onto some of the joint briefings presented by the Fighter Mafia in the 1980’s… Not sure where these are online, i got a copy from some profs i think.
I think you’ll enjoy it, John Boyd is a favorite thoerist of mine, espeically his later work on manuveur warfare with the USMC and temporal based warfare, very Sun Tzu. He work on the evolution of Warfare called Patterns of Conflict is also good. Geez, one must not forget Destruction and Creation… sound like a salesman, sorry. However he is good and interesting…
In my personal opinion he is undervalued while John Warden is a bit overvalued… No offense to Col Warden who is a brilliant tactian.
Once you see that. . .
That is a forgone conclusion. At one time the “fighter mafia” was somewhat respected. These days they’re pretty much viewed as a bunch of nut cases. These are the same guys that wanted the F-16 to have Sidewinders, the gun and dumb bombs only and wanted to kill the Eagle outright.
Fighter mafia? respected? your kidding right??? They fought tooth and nail for damn near everything, they have always been viewed as nut cases and then the aircraft have vindicated them… They did not want to kill the Eagle outright either, they are the ones who made the Eagle what it is today!!!!
I think Pierre Sprey and the Boyd Boys know a bit more about this type of stuff then anyone on this board :rolleyes:
PS That Sprey briefing is pure Boyd! Wonderful, I loved it…
Let me read the files and get back to you about what i think, but just scanning through the Sprey briefing, it is what John Boyd was hammering throughout the 1980’s and 90’s. Almost verbatim actually, I will post some of the Boyd Briefings about this when I have some time to find them.
Nice pics… is that F-35 a mockup or have they already retired the first prototype?
The Greek AF has a couple a Daks with WWII combat service in thier log books….
But it should make the projected BoB film Cruise is supposed to be keen on doing very interesting. If he’s soloed on a P51, a Spit or Hurricane should’nt be too much trouble. I can’t recall a film in which the star actually flew an aircraft. Weird guy but I can’t help liking him.
Harrison Ford did the flying for that movie a few years back about him get stranded on a tropical island with some lady, cant remember what it was called,
i went to a talk by the Commander of Northern Forces Canada and he stated there has been testing by Canada Command on both the C-27 and C-295. He has a favorite but would not elaborate…
Perhaps, but the issue of sea based heavy transport is first on the list as that project (debacle) has been going for years now. Then again, who needs heavy transport now tht you have gotten rid of your Leopards and gone to ‘light’ wheeled vechiles? 😉
Here are a few more i found on airliners.net….
My profs, Dr Bercuson and Herwig from the Centre for Military and Strategic Studies were involved with that program about the Bismarck… Quite interesting!
It is more than that and I’m sure you know it as well.
But, I guess that since Chinese are such easy pickin’s that it’s easy
to excuse oneself of the bigotry isn’t it? Particularly if and when most Chinese members
of this board are so afraid to voice their opinions and would thus painstakenly try their best to shy
away from or to avoid using certain racial terms and suggestion that some here do to avoid
confrontation. I mean why can’t people get off of their obsessions???Anyway, somebody’s got to get the ball rolling
here about this negative atitudes towards the Chinese and if I have
to be the one to initiate it, then so be it..
Incredible!!! Gotta love the internet and ppl with too much time and sensitivity on thier hands!
Garmisch still isnt high rez 🙁
Was looking for any pic of Boyd’s Hun and found this thread among others. Seen a number of Hun related threads around here and not one single mention of its most famous pilot, John “Forty Second” Boyd, yes same guy who did the EM theory.
I was just thinking the same thing! Great story of him beginng his thoery of EM by pancaking the aircraft violenty to throw off his opponet. This was also the beginning of his OODA theories. His is a personal favorite, in fact i am giving a lecture on Thurs and he will be a major topic.
The most famous NATO “roaduser” was and still is Sweden. ).
Aside from the fact that of course Sweden is not part of NATO! (Offically at least, but that is my entire dissertation!)
On a side note there is a video out there of a Viggen doing a road landing, very very impressive… Stops quicker then my WRX! Could be a slightly uncomfortable experince for the pilot! Make sure those straps are somewhat padded!!!!
Just read an article in Flypast that the SAAF still uses Dak’s that were built in the 1940’s.