RE: American Bashing!

>Actually I’ve travelled a fair amount for my age. Granted,
>I’m still in school so excuse me if I can’t get out to
>travel to find out the “truth” in other parts of Europe.
>I’ve been to the U.K., France, and Canada.

Phantom II, maybe I was a little harsh on you. I am glad you have travelled, and I hope you continue to do so. Not to be boastful, but I have travelled from the time I was 12 years old and I have learnt quite a bit from my experiences. I spent 7 years in university in the U.S., and I travelled in the states quite a bit as well. I enjoyed my stay immensely, and I met great Americans. Your “anti-american” rhetoric won’t work with me because I have defended America numerous times and I have been very objective in my replies and outlook. If you care to dig up some of my replies from the archives, you can see for yourself. It is very important to have an objective view on political matters. If you constantly believe that your nation can do no wrong, not only are you deluding yourself, you are in fact depriving yourself of learning something new. I will be the first to say that Sri Lanka is not perfect and we have commited blunders constantly and we continue to do so. I am sure most of the european members on this forum feel the same and are open to criticism. What irritates most people(including quite a few Americans I know), is the arrogance of America and its hypocritical ways.

>Regarding Saddam? I’m gonna pretend like I didn’t just read
>that you feel he isn’t any type of threat. The reason we
>need to get him out of power is because of what he might do.
>He’s shown how inhuman his regime can be. Not to mention
>Israel is in real danger more so with him in power than if
>he isn’t. You spend all this effort trying to say how my
>judgement is clouded yet you can’t spot an evil man such as
>Saddam. Please, go back and check your personal definition
>of what a real threat is and get back to me. Hopefully you
>will have come to your senses.

Before I answer this question, I would encourage you to go to your local library and borrow the following book.

SPIDER’S WEB The secret history of how the White House illegally armed Iraq by Alan Friedman and published in 1993.

Here is an introduction from the book jacket.

Spider’s Web is the secret account of a decade of deceit.

For ten years, the White House, assisted by allies in London and Rome, brushed aside the law in a relentless quest to support Saddam Hussein. What were the the forces that shaped this persisting embrace of a dictator whom George Bush would eventually compare to Adolf Hitler? How did Washington and its NATO allies nurture a frequently illicit rapport with Saddam, and what was the real story of why it became necessary to mount Operation Desert Storm? How did the governments led by George Bush and Margaret Thatcher seek to cover their past dealings with the Iraqi leader after Desert Storm finally drove him from Kuwait in 1991?

This major work of investigative journalism probes a world of oil and money, of policies proclaimed in public and contravened in private, that committed billions of American taxpayer dollars to assisting Saddam and allowed the reckless export of U.S. technology to some of the Iraqi dictator’s most lethal weapons projects.

Here for the first time is the total, fully documented story of how the White House armed Iraq. From George Bush and James Baker to the covert operatives, arms merchants, and foot soldiers who carried out illegal operations with the blessing of the White House and CIA officials, it is filled with vivid portraits and dramatic stories of a dangerous covert policy in action. Just as dramatic and shocking is the step-by-step chronicle of how the Bush administration then mounted a cynical and far-ranging cover-up to hide the truth about America’s policies toward Baghdad– a cover-up that this book exposes in detail never revealed before.

[im]Spider’s Web[/i] is a dramatic tale of abuse of power by senior officals of the Reagan and Bush administrations. It reads like a thriller. None of it is fiction.

Alan Friedman is a correspondant for the Financial Times of London, and a four-time winner of the British Press Awards, the British equivalent of the Pulitzer prize. An American citizen, he began covering the scandal known as Iraqgate while serving as the paper’s Milan correspondent and later broke new ground while working on a joint investigation with Ted Koppel and ABC Nightline. He is the author of Agnelli and the Network of Italian Power, which was an international bestseller.

>Regarding Republicans and Democrats, I’ll agree politics is
>a sneaky game, but I can guarantee you that Democrats are
>much more interested in their own personal gains than what’s
>going on around the world. Those in other parts of the world
>think Democrats are better foreign policy makers because
>they tend to appease Europe and other nations more so than
>Republicans. That’s why you people seem to like Democrats
>better. In reality, they do this country a disservice. When
>Clinton (or any Democrat) was in office, our military took a
>turn for the worse. You’ll find that most of those in the
>military support Republicans because they get things done as
>opposed to making promises and appeasing other governments
>and the like, which is what Democrats (i.e. Liberals) do.
>The job of the American governemt is not to appease other
>nations like some of you wish we would.

After you read the book, you will realize for yourself which political party in fact has been of disservice to the American people. I am not a Clinton supporter, nor am I a George Bush fan. I have an objective view on politics and I will favour whichever administration that will serve my interests at a given time.

– How could the Reagan and Bush administrations allow U.S. exports to contribute to Saddam Hussein’s nuclear weapons projects?

– How much did the CIA know about a little branch bank in Atlanta, Georgia that sent billions of dollars into Saddam’s war machine?

– What was a one-time washing machine salesman doing in Baghdad with a billion-dollar list of banned military equipment for Saddam’s son-in-law?

– What did Washington know about Saudi Arabia’s unholy deal with terrorist Abu Nidal?

– Why did George Bush sign a presidential conflict-of-interest waiver for James Baker just days after Saddam invaded Kuwait?

– Who illegally provided lethal U.S. cluster bomb technology to a Chilean arms manufacturer who sold $500 million worth of the bombs to Iraq?

– Why did the CIA allow a churchgoing businessman in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, to send weapons components to South Africa that ended in Baghdad?

– Why would George Bush himself get involved in White House discussions about withholding Iraq-related documents from Congress?

>My judgement, Sam, is NOT clouded. Not nearly as much as
>these Euro-liberal individuals who think they know how the
>United States should act.
>
>This is ridiculous.

P II, I have been involved in sensitive discussions like this quite a few times on this board. I have bashed europeans for their near sighted ideas as well, and I am sure Geforce, Rabie, GarryB, mongu, and Glenn will attest to that. I will also not hesitate to condemn Sri Lanka or in fact Asia, because I am not blinded by patriotism. I have lived long enough to realize that this is not a benevolent world and it is ‘Might over Right.’ If an action warrants a certain amount of criticism, I will not hesitate to do so; afterall that is one of the many benefits of knowledge and education.

Your judgement is due to your lack of knowledge and your refusal to believe that your government itself is guilty of lying to its own people.

Sam.

RE: American Bashing!

>As usual I have to jump in here. Like Scooter, I’m sick of
>this Euroliberal anti-US crap all of you are putting up.
>Geforce, saying that Europe is “on the playing field” is a
>load of crap. Aside from Britain, the rest of Europe
>(especially the EU) is a big joke to me. You people are only
>willing to get involved in very rare circumstances.

Have you seen the world? Where have you travelled? The more you travel, the more you understand and the less ignorant you are. Europeans have always been very secular and very interested in the rest of the world. Most Americans have not even seen half of the US.

>As far as Saddam being a threat to the world, how can you
>sit there and say he is not? He needs to be removed from
>power. Israel is at risk from him (as they are at risk from
>other nations in that volatile region). The man invaded
>another country to steal oil and add to his nation. And yet
>you people defend him saying that nothing should be done
>about him. Please explain.

Please be kind enough to explain how he is a threat to the world. Didn’t the US support Saddam during the fall of the Shah? Didn’t the US give all the sensitive info they had about the Iranians to the Iraqi’s? Didn’t the US support Saddam all through the eighties? Is this the same Saddam you are gunning after now because he refused to tow the US line?

>Most of you seem like the biggest bunch of tree-hugging,
>peace loving liberals it makes me sick. The funny thing
>about liberals I’ve learned is that all of them are willing
>to tell people how they should live their lives and what not
>to do yet they don’t abide by those same rules.

Just because the europeans criticize US foreign policy does not make them tree-hugging liberals. The inability to see the truth is what clouds your better judgement.

>And Clinton?
>If you think he did the country good you are seriously
>mistaken. I’ve spoken to very few of “my fellow Americans”
>who approved of Clinton. Democrats (similar to liberals) are
>only interested in what gets more votes. The job of the
>president is to do what’s best for the country. In this
>regard, Bush is doing a much better job than Clinton ever
>did. If Gore had been elected, we would be sitting at the
>peace tables with Bin Laden trying to negotiate just so we
>can appease mid-East and European nations.

The success of a president is not measured during his first year. The success is measured at the end of his term. As for George W. Bush being better than Bill Clinton, only time will tell. Don’t tell me that Republicans are not interested in getting more votes, because its easy to take the holier than thou attitude and look down on the Democrats; when in actuality politics are a dirty game and everyone has their hand in the pot.

>So guys, do everyone a favor and stop the anti-US crap on
>here. It’s getting really old.

When did valid criticism become anti-US? Is that your lame answer to a debate?

Sam.

RE: American Bashing!

>As a American I am really getting tried of all of the
>American Bashing going around! It seems like regardless what
>the U.S. does everyone criticizes its actions?

The reason is very simple to understand. The US has decided to police the world and with it comes a certain amount of accountability and responsibility. Since the US gets involved in any issue that threatens its interests, then it must expect to be put on a stand to explain why, what, how, and where.

>Well, you
>know its easy to be a spectator at a game than it is to be a
>player on the field. As for our critics all I can say is get
>in the game or stop yelling from the stands. Our Fathers and
>Grandfathers fought and died fighting in two World Wars.
>We’ve defeated Nazi’s, Tojo’s, and Communist all in the last
>half century!

If you have read your history, you would know that european nations and most notably Russia and France suffered more than anyone else. You didn’t fight the Nazi’s because you loved the Jews; you fought them because it was in your best interest to do so. If the Americans were so fond of the Jews, you would have entered the war long ago. Don’t forget, WW II stimulated America’s economy and it was a blessing in disguise. America is the ONLY nation that actually benefitted economically due to the war. As for being a spectator on the field as opposed to being a participant; America has voluntary stepped into the ring challenging any participant that disagrees with the American way. Remember, YOU decided to enter the ring due to your own interests. Since other nations have no interest in policing the world, they are quite content to watch from the stands shouting an occasional Boo!

>Then afterwards we helped rebuild those very
>same countries with compassion and understanding. (i.e.
>Germany, Japan, Itay, etc.) Further, we give more aid and
>feed more people than the rest of the world combined!

You helped build these countries due to your own interests, it had nothing to do with feeling sympathetic for the europeans. A strong europe was extremely important given the fact that 90% of your world trade was with european nations. As far as giving aid to other nations; you need to get your facts straight. Per capita, the US lags behind wealthy european nations who have been far more generous than the US. Even more generous has been Japan, who single handedly donated more per capita than any other nation in this world.

>Many
>claim that the U.S. is in the Middle East because of the
>oil. Yet, the majority of Middle Eastern oil goes to Europe
>and the Far East! Its not our oil that we are protecting
>but, the rest of the worlds! In 1944 we invade Normandy to
>defeat the Nazi’s.

It is not a claim. It is a fact. Most middle eastern oil goes to Europe and the far east? Dubious claims. Most middle eastern oil is consumed by the US. In 1944 you didn’t enter Normandy to defeat the Nazis. You entered Normand because your interests were threatned. If you were so interested in defeating the Nazis you would have entered the fray at the onset without going ahead with the “isolationist plan.”

>It wasn’t for any monetary reasons or
>territorial gains! It was to free the French people and
>restore freedom to Europe. Now be lectured from people that
>owe many of their freedoms to our forefathers is offensive
>to say the least! We have a very old saying in America
>”Freedom isn’t Free”…….and I mite add “Becareful what
>you wish for you mite get it”……As our President recently
>said “which side our you on” In the last half century it was
>Hitler, Tojo, and Mussolini! Now its Saddam, Communism, and
>Terrorist! Which, side are you on?

Sometimes, I can’t help but wonder how poorly informed some people are. No monetary reasons? No territorial gains? When did a nation ever do something purely for benevolent reasons? There is no benevolence in this world, just interests. America entered the WW II, because it was in their best interest to do so. Pearl Harbour was the best excuse. The Yanks cracked the Japanese codes long before the PH attack, and had known the attack was inevitable.

As for Saddam, Osama, Noriega, Marcos, Pinochet, Mobutu, Suharto, and many others; you don’t seem to be well read for a person who makes accusations. All these people were created by the OSS and the CIA with the primary task of guarding their interests. When they didn’t tow the line, they were branded as dictators and ousted. Untill then they were the bastion of democracy and voice of freedom.

Never for once did America envison that the Frankenstein it created (Osama Bin Laden) could turn against its own master. As they say history repeats itself, and I am a mere spectator in the stands.

Sam.

RE: Airtime Publishing

PII,

I have written about AIRtime publishing and their new books at http://www.acig.org in the Air Combat Bar under the “New Book Releases” thread. http://www.acig.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=936&forum=9&1

As for the AIRtime publishing website, I have also written about it at http://www.acig.org in the Air Combat Bar under the “Good website for buying military books?” thread. http://www.acig.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=751&forum=9&3

I bought the McDonnel F-4 Phantom: Spirit in the Skies when it came out and I was not that impressed with it due to technical reasons. Most of the information is prior published “cut and paste” with dubious claims. Other than that it is a good database which includes a comprehensive guide to the F-4 and its service record. It has also been edited by Jon Lake who has been associated with a number of good books.

Here is a link to my discussion with Tom at http://www.acig.org in World Air Forces/Air Arms under the “Iran IRIAF – Equipment Discussions” thread on a claim I read in the book about the Iranians using British Spey engines on IRIAF Phantoms. http://www.acig.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=83&forum=6…

Sam.

good arguments Garry and Mongu.

For once I agree with mongu. I wish I could get involved in this banter, but I think Skythe has his hands full with Garry and mongu.

Sam.

RE: BRAZIL!!!!!!! Number one!!!

>I don’t think that is Ronaldo. It looks like
>Kleberson(below), the guy that nearly scored a couple of
>goals last night. Tasteless? Yes.

Sorry Glenn, you are mistaken; the man is Ronaldo.

Sam.

Sad day for Germany

Sad to see Deutchland lose.

Go Kahn!

Sam.

RE: NATO members

>Is Russia a member of NATO? I could have sworn they weren’t,
>but I got this individual on another board that swears they
>are. Can someone please clarify?

Russia is not a full fledged member of NATO, but rather a honourary member of the alliance. Russia was given a seat at the NATO table in late May and will have equal status with the other 19 nations.

Sam.