serendibRE: FINALLY!! Britain admits to their sordid colonial past!!!
>BTW, Sam is prone to being an antagonist. He’ll probably
>call me a “murderous ignorant white christian racist
>exploiting colonist” for saying that 🙂
Actually, I was thinking of something along that line. How about Murderous, uncouth, uncivilized, unintelligent cave-dwelling, White, Christian plague? :7 Glad to have you back mongu. I was feeling bored without having the likes of you to argue with and keep up with my condescending banter. }>
Sam.
serendibRE: FINALLY!! Britain admits to their sordid colonial past!!!
>BTW, Sam is prone to being an antagonist. He’ll probably
>call me a “murderous ignorant white christian racist
>exploiting colonist” for saying that 🙂
Actually, I was thinking of something along that line. How about Murderous, uncouth, uncivilized, unintelligent cave-dwelling, White, Christian plague? :7 Glad to have you back mongu. I was feeling bored without having the likes of you to argue with and keep up with my condescending banter. }>
Sam.
serendibRE: FINALLY!! Britain admits to their sordid colonial past!!!
> Of course calling someone ignorant is an insult, at least
>in Europe. You have misunderstood my words and I am affraid
>you have focuszised your frustation as a citizen of a former
>colony on a “european abusive colonial citizen”.
I understand English is not your first language and it must be difficult for you to comprehend my words. But, using the word “ignorant” is not an insult; I don’t know which part of europe you are referring to, I trust you have your own “English” where you live. The word ignorant is used to refer to someone who is lacking in education or knowledge. It used quite commonly in media and in literature to refer to someone who is unaware or uninformed. So, when you made an ignorant statement, I called you ignorant and I stand by it.
>I have
>never defended colonization, and I find it something
>dreadful, but I wanted to remind the different mentality of
>the time. I tell you one thing: I meet in Germany a lovely,
>really friendly old man, sweet, human who had worked in a
>Concentration camp in Germany. You couldn´t believe a nazi
>was so much religous, kind, sensible….but he thought he
>was right. Of course he wasn´t, of course colonizator
>weren´t right.
So, what you are telling me is that you are apt to believe that a person who is “friendly, sweet, and human” as put in your words can do no wrong? Sorry, but I don’t judge people based on the above criteria. There are quite a few evil people in this world who go to church/temple/mosque/kovil who read the bible/light the lamps every day, kiss their children, pet their dogs and then murder people at night. What does that mean? Does going to church mean a person can do no wrong? Let’s not forget that the Crusades were conducted by the will of god. Was that right? How about the Sept.11th Hijackers? Didn’t they believe they had god in their pockets? Didn’t the colonizers come to our nations with the Bible in their hands and loot the nation all in the name of christianity?
>But humans are arrogantly racist and think
>they have the divine duty to enlighten others. So past
>things can´t be judged with present mind. The consideration
>of human rights, values vary from culture to culture. It´s
>not an excuse, it´s simply a way to tell you that history
>can´t be used to throw it to other people as revindicative
>fact.
Speak for yourself. Human beings are not ‘arrogantly racist’ as put in your words. The past is important to the future. Your deeds of the past whether good or bad will haunt you in the future. Isn’t that what the BBC article is about? The British intellegensia is shameful of their past and by admitting to their wrong doing they are in fact trying to exorcise the ghosts of the colonial times. Aren’t people suffering now because of the short-sighted thinking of the British at that time? We are not discussing human rights here, and I am not interested in wondering of they indeed vary from culture to culture. If I am peacefully living at home, does that give someone the right to break down my door, steal my belongings, eat my food, rape my wife, kill my children and then blame me for not being Christian? Think about it.
>Of course any colonization was as brutal as the
>Spanish or the British…of course. But it´s a question of
>power. The more powerful you are, the most you do.
You mean ‘The more powerful you are the more you oppress’!!, that is even true today. But that is not in question here. As for other colonizers being as brutal as the British or Spanish, I must state in defence of Great Britain that they were not as bad as the Spanish and the Portugese. I had quite a few Filipino friends and we had quite a few discussions on this and I was quite disturbed at what the Spaniards did to the natives. It is an accepted fact, that the Spanish were the worst colonizers in the world. The British on the other hand were more in it for monetary gains than worrying too much about us having to change names/become christians or explaining to us ‘heathens’ that we wil go to hell for not believing in god.
>And when
>I mentioned the positive aspects, I mean for example (from
>an abusive trade) came a positive aspect. Let´s take Ceylon
>tea. Do you think that tea would be so popular worldwide if
>the British hadn´t made such a huge marketing and
>distribution.
That is another ignorant statement. It is much more decent and courteous if you asked me about the tea issue in Sri Lanka, without talking about something you don’t know. Since, I come from a nation that was colonized, since I come from a nation that was subjugated, since I come from a nation that bore the brunt of colonization; I think you should at least give me that respect as to what my people think of it without going off on a tangent full of nonsense. Did you know the British destroyed 90% of pristine forest cover in the mountains to make room for Tea? Did you think that Tea was planted for our benefit? Did you think they said, ‘We are planting Tea for you people to make money’? Do you know how much of our wildlife was lost due to that? Coffee was planted first and due to fungus wiping out the entire crop, Tea was planted and it became an instant success. Thus, we have had uninformed people like you from europe telling us how fortunate we are that the British planted tea. A swift kick up their proserior is used and then they are “re-educated” about the myth of the Tea business. To be blatantly honest we would rather be without the “World’s best tea” and have our prisitne forest cover anyday than have undergone the misfortune of being colonized for 450 years by the uncivilized Portugese, the oppressive Dutch and the forked-tongued English.
>And Chocolate, I the Spaniards hadn´t brought
>it to Spain, do you think the product would have been so
>popular. I know, they did for their own interests…but at
>the end tea and chocolate is the basic support of the third
>world community because the first world wants, and
>infrastructures left, indirect spreed of the colonized
>country… In an unfair way…probably, but thats another
>issue. And about colonization of other lands…..it´s a
>nasty human activity. History is chain of colonization
>processes. Dreadful but usual. No excuse on that, but I
>don´t feel responsible of what my forefathers did, and you
>are not entitled to claim yours suffering.
I encourage you to go to college and get yourself educated. We should be thankful to the colonials for popularising Tea and Chocolate? Tea and Chocolate are backbone of our economies? I am not going to reply to such an uninformed and ignorant post. I am not here to educate you and since you have got into an argument with me on something you are not well read on, I decline to go into it.
Finally, I am not asking you for forgiveness for your forefathers sins, nor am I asking for reparations. Don’t twist my words to something I never said. All I am asking for is accountability in the actions of a nation. Is that too difficult to understand? I am thankful that the intellegensia present in Great Britain today does not have their head in the sand regarding this issue. I am also thankful for not having people like you in decision making positions in the european world.
Most of the jealousy and ignorance from europeans like you come from the fact that you find it difficult to realize that 2500 years ago, our societies were functioning societies boasting of technological marvels and massive engineering feats which was not even a dream amongst the cave-dwelling europeans.
Sam.
serendibRE: FINALLY!! Britain admits to their sordid colonial past!!!
> Of course calling someone ignorant is an insult, at least
>in Europe. You have misunderstood my words and I am affraid
>you have focuszised your frustation as a citizen of a former
>colony on a “european abusive colonial citizen”.
I understand English is not your first language and it must be difficult for you to comprehend my words. But, using the word “ignorant” is not an insult; I don’t know which part of europe you are referring to, I trust you have your own “English” where you live. The word ignorant is used to refer to someone who is lacking in education or knowledge. It used quite commonly in media and in literature to refer to someone who is unaware or uninformed. So, when you made an ignorant statement, I called you ignorant and I stand by it.
>I have
>never defended colonization, and I find it something
>dreadful, but I wanted to remind the different mentality of
>the time. I tell you one thing: I meet in Germany a lovely,
>really friendly old man, sweet, human who had worked in a
>Concentration camp in Germany. You couldn´t believe a nazi
>was so much religous, kind, sensible….but he thought he
>was right. Of course he wasn´t, of course colonizator
>weren´t right.
So, what you are telling me is that you are apt to believe that a person who is “friendly, sweet, and human” as put in your words can do no wrong? Sorry, but I don’t judge people based on the above criteria. There are quite a few evil people in this world who go to church/temple/mosque/kovil who read the bible/light the lamps every day, kiss their children, pet their dogs and then murder people at night. What does that mean? Does going to church mean a person can do no wrong? Let’s not forget that the Crusades were conducted by the will of god. Was that right? How about the Sept.11th Hijackers? Didn’t they believe they had god in their pockets? Didn’t the colonizers come to our nations with the Bible in their hands and loot the nation all in the name of christianity?
>But humans are arrogantly racist and think
>they have the divine duty to enlighten others. So past
>things can´t be judged with present mind. The consideration
>of human rights, values vary from culture to culture. It´s
>not an excuse, it´s simply a way to tell you that history
>can´t be used to throw it to other people as revindicative
>fact.
Speak for yourself. Human beings are not ‘arrogantly racist’ as put in your words. The past is important to the future. Your deeds of the past whether good or bad will haunt you in the future. Isn’t that what the BBC article is about? The British intellegensia is shameful of their past and by admitting to their wrong doing they are in fact trying to exorcise the ghosts of the colonial times. Aren’t people suffering now because of the short-sighted thinking of the British at that time? We are not discussing human rights here, and I am not interested in wondering of they indeed vary from culture to culture. If I am peacefully living at home, does that give someone the right to break down my door, steal my belongings, eat my food, rape my wife, kill my children and then blame me for not being Christian? Think about it.
>Of course any colonization was as brutal as the
>Spanish or the British…of course. But it´s a question of
>power. The more powerful you are, the most you do.
You mean ‘The more powerful you are the more you oppress’!!, that is even true today. But that is not in question here. As for other colonizers being as brutal as the British or Spanish, I must state in defence of Great Britain that they were not as bad as the Spanish and the Portugese. I had quite a few Filipino friends and we had quite a few discussions on this and I was quite disturbed at what the Spaniards did to the natives. It is an accepted fact, that the Spanish were the worst colonizers in the world. The British on the other hand were more in it for monetary gains than worrying too much about us having to change names/become christians or explaining to us ‘heathens’ that we wil go to hell for not believing in god.
>And when
>I mentioned the positive aspects, I mean for example (from
>an abusive trade) came a positive aspect. Let´s take Ceylon
>tea. Do you think that tea would be so popular worldwide if
>the British hadn´t made such a huge marketing and
>distribution.
That is another ignorant statement. It is much more decent and courteous if you asked me about the tea issue in Sri Lanka, without talking about something you don’t know. Since, I come from a nation that was colonized, since I come from a nation that was subjugated, since I come from a nation that bore the brunt of colonization; I think you should at least give me that respect as to what my people think of it without going off on a tangent full of nonsense. Did you know the British destroyed 90% of pristine forest cover in the mountains to make room for Tea? Did you think that Tea was planted for our benefit? Did you think they said, ‘We are planting Tea for you people to make money’? Do you know how much of our wildlife was lost due to that? Coffee was planted first and due to fungus wiping out the entire crop, Tea was planted and it became an instant success. Thus, we have had uninformed people like you from europe telling us how fortunate we are that the British planted tea. A swift kick up their proserior is used and then they are “re-educated” about the myth of the Tea business. To be blatantly honest we would rather be without the “World’s best tea” and have our prisitne forest cover anyday than have undergone the misfortune of being colonized for 450 years by the uncivilized Portugese, the oppressive Dutch and the forked-tongued English.
>And Chocolate, I the Spaniards hadn´t brought
>it to Spain, do you think the product would have been so
>popular. I know, they did for their own interests…but at
>the end tea and chocolate is the basic support of the third
>world community because the first world wants, and
>infrastructures left, indirect spreed of the colonized
>country… In an unfair way…probably, but thats another
>issue. And about colonization of other lands…..it´s a
>nasty human activity. History is chain of colonization
>processes. Dreadful but usual. No excuse on that, but I
>don´t feel responsible of what my forefathers did, and you
>are not entitled to claim yours suffering.
I encourage you to go to college and get yourself educated. We should be thankful to the colonials for popularising Tea and Chocolate? Tea and Chocolate are backbone of our economies? I am not going to reply to such an uninformed and ignorant post. I am not here to educate you and since you have got into an argument with me on something you are not well read on, I decline to go into it.
Finally, I am not asking you for forgiveness for your forefathers sins, nor am I asking for reparations. Don’t twist my words to something I never said. All I am asking for is accountability in the actions of a nation. Is that too difficult to understand? I am thankful that the intellegensia present in Great Britain today does not have their head in the sand regarding this issue. I am also thankful for not having people like you in decision making positions in the european world.
Most of the jealousy and ignorance from europeans like you come from the fact that you find it difficult to realize that 2500 years ago, our societies were functioning societies boasting of technological marvels and massive engineering feats which was not even a dream amongst the cave-dwelling europeans.
Sam.
serendibRE: FINALLY!! Britain admits to their sordid colonial past!!!
mongu,
Its about time we agreed on something. 😉
>> Don’t make an ignorant
>>statement by saying it was the ‘normal thing at that time.’
>>That is a poor excuse, and it shows your ignorance.
>
> I won´t debate anything with someone, who uses insults to
>answer.
keltic,
I didn’t realize using the word “ignorance” is perceived as an insult. I am inclined to believe that you are using a non-issue as an excuse to not argue with me due to your inability to counter my arguments with credible facts.
Sam.
serendibRE: FINALLY!! Britain admits to their sordid colonial past!!!
mongu,
Its about time we agreed on something. 😉
>> Don’t make an ignorant
>>statement by saying it was the ‘normal thing at that time.’
>>That is a poor excuse, and it shows your ignorance.
>
> I won´t debate anything with someone, who uses insults to
>answer.
keltic,
I didn’t realize using the word “ignorance” is perceived as an insult. I am inclined to believe that you are using a non-issue as an excuse to not argue with me due to your inability to counter my arguments with credible facts.
Sam.
serendibRE: FINALLY!! Britain admits to their sordid colonial past!!!
Here I was thinking that sanity has prevailed, but here we go again.
> I find that nowadays is quite simplistic bringing these
>discussions. Countries with a deep colonial past are not
>more or less evil to those submitted to a colonialism
>empire.
The fact is more and more people are willing to voice their opinion on something that was much more harsh than what is present today. More and more people are becoming aware of the cruelties commited, and the results of those actions are becoming very evident today. The fact is countries that subjugated other nations not evil at all, in fact they were nations without any form of civility nor respect for humans or other cultures.
>Letting aside that colonial processes also brought
>positive consecuences, all countries, tend to exploit the
>weak, and the weak then to exploit the even weaker. Human
>explotations doesn´t have nationality.
Wait a minute. A colonial process that brought a positive consequence? That is the most ignorant statement I have heard in a long time. There was nothing positive about the sordid occupation that was bent on raping, pillaging and convering people to Chrstianity. To talk about a positive experience is nothing more than rants of an uneducated individual.
>It´s quite senseless
>trying to judge other times with our patterns of thought.
>Times are different. The most important colonial powers were
>the UK and Spain….were they wicked?. In that time, they
>were thinking they were doing the right thing. Of course, we
>can´t accept colonialismm of course it brought abuses, but
>they thought they had a divine duty.
Actually, this is not a judgement at all. We are talking about nations that were exploited, looted and converted all in the name of god. Do you know how much of money earned from a nation was put back into their coffers? A mere 1%. That’s right, you read it right. Now, you are telling me that was a sign of the times? I am not worried if they thought they had divine duty much less that god spoke to them invidually, my point is it was wrong and now finally we have people admitting to it. Our nations are not worried what causes or reasons your ancestors had, that does not sway our thoughts one bit. Every action has its reasons, and it is either right or wrong.
>And in the case of the
>countries exploited, I am fully sure they submitted the
>weaker neighbours before arriving the British or Spnaniards,
>French….Am I justifying them. No. Simply,It was the normal
>thing at that time, and different concepts and values. Like
>the slavery in the Roman Empire…..they had the strong
>preception that they could that because, slaves were things.
>So bringing this, to make a revindicative case doesn´t make
>any sense.
Please don’t talk with both sides of your mouth. You are saying that our nations subjugated people? Sure, we did that. But, the point is never in history have people ever been subjugated to the level of intensity which was prevelant during the european colonial times. Not only did they take our land, they completely changed our whole lives and our pattern of thinking. Don’t make an ignorant statement by saying it was the ‘normal thing at that time.’ That is a poor excuse, and it shows your ignorance. Is blowing up buildings and terrorism a sign of the times? Yes. Is it acceptable? No. That’s the point. Just because it was done does not mean it should be acceptable. It had nothing to do with thinking that slaves were “objects” during Roman times, it had more to do with thinking that Europeans were the superior people on earth, and that hasn’t changed much even in some societies today.
Sam.
serendibRE: FINALLY!! Britain admits to their sordid colonial past!!!
Here I was thinking that sanity has prevailed, but here we go again.
> I find that nowadays is quite simplistic bringing these
>discussions. Countries with a deep colonial past are not
>more or less evil to those submitted to a colonialism
>empire.
The fact is more and more people are willing to voice their opinion on something that was much more harsh than what is present today. More and more people are becoming aware of the cruelties commited, and the results of those actions are becoming very evident today. The fact is countries that subjugated other nations not evil at all, in fact they were nations without any form of civility nor respect for humans or other cultures.
>Letting aside that colonial processes also brought
>positive consecuences, all countries, tend to exploit the
>weak, and the weak then to exploit the even weaker. Human
>explotations doesn´t have nationality.
Wait a minute. A colonial process that brought a positive consequence? That is the most ignorant statement I have heard in a long time. There was nothing positive about the sordid occupation that was bent on raping, pillaging and convering people to Chrstianity. To talk about a positive experience is nothing more than rants of an uneducated individual.
>It´s quite senseless
>trying to judge other times with our patterns of thought.
>Times are different. The most important colonial powers were
>the UK and Spain….were they wicked?. In that time, they
>were thinking they were doing the right thing. Of course, we
>can´t accept colonialismm of course it brought abuses, but
>they thought they had a divine duty.
Actually, this is not a judgement at all. We are talking about nations that were exploited, looted and converted all in the name of god. Do you know how much of money earned from a nation was put back into their coffers? A mere 1%. That’s right, you read it right. Now, you are telling me that was a sign of the times? I am not worried if they thought they had divine duty much less that god spoke to them invidually, my point is it was wrong and now finally we have people admitting to it. Our nations are not worried what causes or reasons your ancestors had, that does not sway our thoughts one bit. Every action has its reasons, and it is either right or wrong.
>And in the case of the
>countries exploited, I am fully sure they submitted the
>weaker neighbours before arriving the British or Spnaniards,
>French….Am I justifying them. No. Simply,It was the normal
>thing at that time, and different concepts and values. Like
>the slavery in the Roman Empire…..they had the strong
>preception that they could that because, slaves were things.
>So bringing this, to make a revindicative case doesn´t make
>any sense.
Please don’t talk with both sides of your mouth. You are saying that our nations subjugated people? Sure, we did that. But, the point is never in history have people ever been subjugated to the level of intensity which was prevelant during the european colonial times. Not only did they take our land, they completely changed our whole lives and our pattern of thinking. Don’t make an ignorant statement by saying it was the ‘normal thing at that time.’ That is a poor excuse, and it shows your ignorance. Is blowing up buildings and terrorism a sign of the times? Yes. Is it acceptable? No. That’s the point. Just because it was done does not mean it should be acceptable. It had nothing to do with thinking that slaves were “objects” during Roman times, it had more to do with thinking that Europeans were the superior people on earth, and that hasn’t changed much even in some societies today.
Sam.
serendibRE: FINALLY!! Britain admits to their sordid colonial past!!!
>serendib, why are you so anti-English? not all of us fit the
>above description!
>some of us are real nice chaps you know, who see the world
>in a wider perspective than most of the narrow minded morons
>that inhabit this little island!
dcfly,
I am not anti-english at all, actually on the contrary. I have met great Englishmen, and there are bad apples in every nation; just like there are bad apples in Sri Lanka. I don’t equate the character of a nation with a few people in mind, that’s for the ignorant. I however, have an issue with people who don’t admit to their wrong-doings and I have had quite a few banterings on this forum to counter that. Nothing more pervasive than a person who is falsely patriotic and believes that their nation is infallible.
To prove my allegiance to the crown, here’s paying homage to the Her Majesty and the people of Britain. }>
God save our gracious Queen!
Long live our noble Queen!
God save the Queen!
Send her victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us,
God save the Queen.
Sam 😀
serendibRE: FINALLY!! Britain admits to their sordid colonial past!!!
>serendib, why are you so anti-English? not all of us fit the
>above description!
>some of us are real nice chaps you know, who see the world
>in a wider perspective than most of the narrow minded morons
>that inhabit this little island!
dcfly,
I am not anti-english at all, actually on the contrary. I have met great Englishmen, and there are bad apples in every nation; just like there are bad apples in Sri Lanka. I don’t equate the character of a nation with a few people in mind, that’s for the ignorant. I however, have an issue with people who don’t admit to their wrong-doings and I have had quite a few banterings on this forum to counter that. Nothing more pervasive than a person who is falsely patriotic and believes that their nation is infallible.
To prove my allegiance to the crown, here’s paying homage to the Her Majesty and the people of Britain. }>
God save our gracious Queen!
Long live our noble Queen!
God save the Queen!
Send her victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us,
God save the Queen.
Sam 😀
serendibRE: FINALLY!! Britain admits to their sordid colonial past!!!
>Wasn’t it us English that invented concentration camps?? and
>to think we blamed the Germans!
dcfly,
Its indeed a pleasure to meet gentlemen of your like who are not defensive at all and admit very readily to the sordid colonial history of Britain. As much as I would like to blame Britain for inventing concentration camps 😉 , they were actually an invention of Peter the Great. Hitler added the finishing touches to the invention and Stalin maximized it to its fullest potential.
mongu,
No doubt the truth hurts, but its better late than never. As for rubbing it in, you know this kind of news makes my day. }>
Sam.
serendibRE: FINALLY!! Britain admits to their sordid colonial past!!!
>Wasn’t it us English that invented concentration camps?? and
>to think we blamed the Germans!
dcfly,
Its indeed a pleasure to meet gentlemen of your like who are not defensive at all and admit very readily to the sordid colonial history of Britain. As much as I would like to blame Britain for inventing concentration camps 😉 , they were actually an invention of Peter the Great. Hitler added the finishing touches to the invention and Stalin maximized it to its fullest potential.
mongu,
No doubt the truth hurts, but its better late than never. As for rubbing it in, you know this kind of news makes my day. }>
Sam.
serendibRE: The Maybach!
The Maybach is made by DaimlerChrysler, hence the similarity to the Mercedes.
Sam.
serendibRE: The Maybach!
The Maybach is made by DaimlerChrysler, hence the similarity to the Mercedes.
Sam.
serendibRE: SriLankan Snapshot!
Many thanks Kabir. You the man!
Sam.
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