RiiRisk management needs to start in requirements definition phase. JSF was always destined to be the omnishambles fighter by virtue of the VTOL/USMC requirement.
RiiAny dutch politician wanna end up like Pim Fortuyn? :confused:
What is meant by this?
Riihttp://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/singapore-set-to-complete-f-35-assessment-383321/
I highlighted above what I think is the most important point… 😉
This is what responsible governance looks like, as opposed to the shambles over at RAAF, DMO, etc. :rolleyes:
RiiI still find the notion of Mexico or Indonesia having anything like Russia’s military apparatus to be funny.
I don’t think they will either, partly due to drag factors on Mexico and Indonesia, and partly because Russia is an outlier in terms of its military-industrial capacity anyway!
At the very least GDP translates to latent capability, and if you look at e.g. fascist Italy one can see how rapidly that can be mobilised under favourable conditions to turn even a relatively shambolic state into a force to be reckoned with; indeed it was the powers that came late to national unity — Germany, Japan, and Italy — that were to prove the most troublesome for the existing order once they did. And the degree of uncertainty regarding future political arrangements vastly outweighs the degree of uncertainty in economic projections.*
* Although that doesn’t stop one from making some general observations, e.g. that nationalism will increase in both China and the United States over the medium-term.
RiiBTW that was a good post earlier thobbes. Only I never meant to imply that Indonesia will become anything like the size of China. Rather they will be in the second-tier of nations along with Russia, Brazil, Mexico and Japan.
RiiA stealth F-15 that isn’t really stealth doesn’t make much sense, it sounds like aiming urine upwind.
Nothing wrong with reduced RCS as the Eurocans and Super Hornet and Su-35 aim for, the problem is in going further than that and having to make significant trade-offs as F-15SE most certainly does with the CWBs.
RiiWhich has a larger stake ? The E/F is more important to the fighter fleet of the USN, then the F-15E is to the USAF.
And fighters are a lot less important to USN than they are to USAF.
Yes, because the roles are different. An F-15E in 2025 will be a bomb truck (Non VLO) and will serve very little in the role of Air to air operations , an E/F in 2025 will be going up against Air to Air threats of that time, and will be the main a2a jet for the USN.
This is a substantive point. Only nobody outside of USN is going to consider Super Hornet as an A2A platform — not vs. F-15SG/etc. and certainly not vs. Rafale/Typhoon.
They truely VALUE the SH .
Well here’s hoping they value it enough to cancel F-35C and bring the Hyper Hornet roadmap to fruition, because it ain’t gonna happen any other way.
RiiTill when do you see the F-18 E/F (that is delivered in 2014) operating?
Mid-to-late 2030s, in contrast to early-to-mid 2030s for F-15E. Both platforms to be replaced under joint program. This of course assumes that said program is not delayed leading to life extension of F-15E to 2040s akin to what is happening now with F-35 and F-16/F-15C. Given that similar life extension option isn’t really available to USN, it is plausible that Strike Eagle could actually outlive Super Hornet in American service.
As we go into the 2020’s and beyond any USAF upgrade to the F-15E’s in service will be competing against acquisition funding for its various programs
As opposed to USN which has nothing better to spend its money on.
Fiscally it makes more sense to upgrade (significant upgrade) a 10 year old SH then a significantly older F-15E.
Does it, when the proportion of total lifespan consumed isn’t that different?
USN has been very agressive in lobying for the spiral development of the SH, they have pushed the USAF to go in for the JHMCS nad 9x and were also aggresive with the Aim-120D…They will be far more committed to having SIGNIFICANT upgrades to the SH fleet, than USAF , when it comes to its F-15E fleet. I can GUARANTEE that….
Well if your thesis is that USN is by far the more prudent service I can certainly get behind that.
But all this is pre-F35. Any dollars spent on SH in future are dollars not spent on F-35, and we all know how much pressure there is to keep orders for the latter up.
RiiUSN is still getting deliveries of their jets, they also want a road map that constantly adds capability over the life of the SH. USN may also wish to adjust the SH : JSF ratio if the price of the JSF becomes too high for their fleet plan. USAF is committed to aquiring New F-35’s for the forceable future. The F-15E Roadmap (which i believe is not fully funded) has nothing much beyond 2024 nor is the USAF ever going to ask for (Or GET) upgrades like newer engines, TVC, Canards, Stealthy bomb pods, etc etc as this new version (SE) provides, whereas the USN will look to constantly add capability to the SH much beyond that as the line will continue to supply brand new SH’s to the USN till 2015 (Fully funded) and may even go beyond that ….A E/F that comes off the line in 2014-2015, should last for around 20 years, so plenty of scope of upgrading. Remember spending billions to upgrade a fleet that is 10 years old is going to find more takers then funding upgrade of a fleet that is on its last legs.
Upgrading a fleet on it’s last legs? You mean like USAF is doing now with F-16s and F-15Cs? :p
The only way Super Hornet in USN service gets more than 5 years over Strike Eagle in USAF service is if USN flat out abandons F-35C, and as much as I think that’s a jolly good idea, I can’t say it’s a safe bet.
You say that USAF isn’t going to invest in sparkly stuff for F-15E — I agree. But why do you think SH is any different? If F-35C goes ahead then all of USN’s money will be going there and to all the other programs the Navy says it doesn’t have enough money for, not to SH. Indeed the one upgrade for SH that USN has expressed interest in to date — the EDE engine — is about reducing ongoing costs, not improving performance.
RiiYes , but none in large numbers. Nor is it the version that he is suggesting so the orders for an expensive substantially upgraded version would need to come from users beyond those that have ordered these Eagles. USN is a major investor in the F-18S/H with over 500 ordered or received, this will ensure its viability for decades to come, and the USN may buy some more … So as a product , it is backed by serious numbers which will ensure viability, and constant upgrades over its life. The modern F-15’s don’t have such numbers so for a potential buyer that is a NEGATIVE when he compares it to the SH or the euro offerings that will also be built in significant numbers.
USAF operates hundreds of F-15Es and USN operates hundreds of Super Hornets. There is no difference here — even the planned retirement dates are similar thanks to shorter Navy lifecycle!
Neither F-15SE or Hyper Hornet are going anywhere without major investment. There is a slim possibility that USN might fund Hyper Hornet if F-35C continues to disappoint, whereas there is no possibility of USAF funding F-15SE. That is the only difference.
RiiClearly the SH is the stronger offering , the USN and the RAAF has backed it
As opposed to advanced Strike Eagle derivatives ordered by South Korea, Singapore, and Saudi Arabia in the time since SH induction…
SH is mostly inferior to its contemporaries in Rafale/Typhoon whereas Strike Eagle brings strengths to the table that no other western platform can match.
RiiWhy couldn’t a SSN be equipped with AIP??? Seem like they could use it to the same advantages as Conventional Submarines. Just such down the Nuclear Reactors and creep along at 3-5 kts…..:confused:
Nuclear submarines can creep along at steerage speeds no problem, but they can’t shut down the reactor entirely because starting it up again is not a simple matter!
RiiI’m not a fan of the F-15SE. It’s an F-15E minus the range and payload that are the main reasons for considering the platform in the first place!
The Hyper Hornet (my own term :cool:) roadmap is much more interesting: it adds CFTs rather than taking them away. :p
Hyper Hornet improves upon what Super Hornet is already good at; Silent Eagle throws away Strike Eagle strengths for marginal returns.
RiiSince the US just bought Super Tucanos, the pressure is now on Brazil to buy something in return, namely Super Hornets.
More like now that Super Tucano contract is secured Brazil can drop the pretense of being interested in Super Hornet. :p
RiiIn LMFS case is possible cooperation between Brazil (Embraer) and Russia (UAC). Between these countries is military and industrial cooperation growing, and there some hints in the field of fifth generation fighter development.
Details please? 🙂
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