Yes, that part of its issues was caused by the specifications the customer demanded (i.e. the size, range, stealth contradiction) and isn’t really any of LM’s doing – they merely tried to deliver what they had been asked for. They do own the flawed execution of their task, but the brief itself was messed up by other parties.

Well I’ve never been part of the “if only’d they’d chosen the YF-23/X-32…” crowd. It’s long been apparent that the problems run deeper than LM’s failings, as hilarious as those have often been in a “… and another thing” sense.

My perspective has long been that the incorporation of the STOVL requirement was a mistake, and the reason that merger arose was due to a (laudable) desire to cut costs coupled with an unwillingness to actually tackle the gross excesses of the nation’s military-industrial complex, with the end result being a worsening of the United States’ national security position vs. where it would’ve been had someone simply had the balls to tell the USMC that no, they wouldn’t be getting any more candy and to shut the **** up. But then compromising national security is always, ironically, the militarists’ legacy. It was Vietnam that led to the Carter era, it was Reagan that led to the Clinton era, and it was Bush who led to this one. Only this time the United States’ doesn’t have any ‘bounceback’ left and the rest of the world is gearing up to play ball. Fan-*******-tastic.

The Pentagon with all its myriad industrial and political tendrils is the greatest threat to American national security today, far more credible than Iran or Bin Laden-wannabees in huts. $300bn on a lipstick-wearing pig. Your average terrorist couldn’t even dream that big.

Ive been seeing on the news a lot of discussion on the news about the ethics of US drone attacks in afghanistan and pakistan. And there are protests going on in Pakistan. It looks as though there is potential to abuse the advantage of no loss of life by attackers in combat

No ****. These are the Empire’s newest and favouritest instruments: near-useless in anything resembling legitimate military endeavours, but unbeatable in oppressing third-world populations. No different from the Brits’ use of biplanes in a bygone era, and with the same “I don’t see what’s so wrong with gassing uncivilized tribes” (that was Winston Churchill) mentality behind it. How little all the people look from up here.

But no doubt it’ll work well in that function, having both the speed it takes to intercept in a timely manner, and a radar that are large enough to detect the buqgers.

I’d rather pick Typhoon, that is a top notch fighter, works just as well for this task, and in addition is cheaper to operate

I was wondering if the writers were possibly referring to the MiG-31’s supersonic performance at low altitudes.

It looks almost as bloated as a modern F-16 and it hasn’t even entered service yet.

Other countries have been voicing the need for a cheap propellor driven fighter to attack slow moving targets

Typically their own citizens. :rolleyes:

I think you guys have scared Kyoyamaanna away with all this arguing:eek::D

Arguing over which platform is least inadequate vs. PAK FA/J-20 is a pretty boring discussion tbh.

The difference between the American and European situations is that the Europeans are constrained by economies of scale, limited cultural appetite for militarism, difficulties and inefficiencies in multi-national cooperation and generally poor economic outlook on account of unfavourable demographics… whereas the Americans are constrained almost as effectively solely by their own stupidity.

The sized of one nation economy sometimes is not relevant to how big or how advanced their military is or will be.

Sure it is. Japan is amongst the world’s largest military spenders with amongst the world’s best equipment because 1% of what was until recently the world’s second-largest economy is still an awful lot of money. Meanwhile North Korea – a nation which pours its heart and soul into its military – is an ill-equipped laughing stock because 20% of nothing is still nothing. There is a much stronger relationship between raw GDP and military strength than there is between, well, militarism and military strength.

Indonesia would have to adopt a level of institutional pacifism unprecedented in human history for it to AVOID becoming a formidable military power in the decades ahead.

Never though that about China, but ok. If Indonesia operates this plane in such vast numbers sometime in the next 15-20 years, you can remind me, and I will be happy to admit I was wrong.

Frankly I’m surprised at your scepticism given that you must be aware that Indonesia is the single largest export market Russia is anticipating for PAK FA.

And on that note — Russia and reading tea leaves — I’m reminded of the words of a superb (American) reader of tea leaves:

China possesses great natural resources of coal and iron—and coal and iron constitute the backbone of machine civilization. When four hundred and fifty million of the best workers in the world go into manufacturing, a new competitor, and a most ominous and formidable one, will enter the arena where the races struggle for the world-market. Here is the race-adventure—the first clashing of the Asiatic dream with ours. It is true, it is only an economic clash, but economic clashes always precede clashes at arms. And what then? Oh, only that will-o’-wisp, the Yellow peril. But to the Russian, Japan was only a will-o’-wisp until one day, with fire and steel, she smashed the great adventure of the Russian and punctured the bubble-dream he was dreaming. Of this be sure: if ever the day comes that our dreams clash with that of the Yellow and the Brown, and our particular bubble-dream is punctured, there will be one country at least unsurprised, and that country will be Russia. She was awakened from her dream. We are still dreaming.

— Jack London, 1909