10 years for all of them to be delivered I think is what was meant.
I’m sure India will be impressed by Rafale’s performance against Vietnam-era SAM systems.
MiG-35 didn’t even rate a mention. Ouch.
My money is still on Rafale.
I wonder if the Australian AF would be interested in purchasing a Japanese stealth fighter? It would seem to me, it would be a little better suited to their needs than the F-35A.
The only way I can see that happening from Australia’s POV is if the F-35 goes absolutely ****-up and Australia falls back on additional Super Hornet (or Gripen NG) orders instead. If the F-35 is acquired in significant numbers (i.e. 60+) the government will be about as keen on acquiring another manned fighter pre-2040 as, err, something it’s not very keen on.
Add to that the issues on the Japanese end and I’d rank the possibility towards the distinctly unlikely end of the spectrum…
Sweden magical aerospace industry : the more complex the plane, the less expensive it is.
If they had developed an F-22, it would have cost the price of a piper club :p
Stockholm finds your lack of faith disturbing. 
The cost of the F22 is due to small numbers for the most part.
Unit cost was going back up at the time the program was terminated. I think it was a bad idea to cut the program at <250 units, but let’s not kid ourselves: it’s an expensive aircraft.
This “we’ll fund it eventually… maybe” crap is going to come back and bite the partner nations in the ass. Look for India to select Rafale over Typhoon.
Nah, it seems that the only killer app on F/A-XX is that it’s intended to be either manned or not, according to mission, with slightly more advanced propulsion – the rest’s incremental, as it should be sensibly: a consolidation upon mature ‘5th Gen’ tech, rather than another ‘pushing the envelope, but still affordable [and they’re using that word again!, for shame!]’ procurement horror.
Which I’m sure will be the Japanese approach too.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the ‘6th Gen’ BS actually backfires – does the US have the stomach for yet another procurement nightmare? ‘5th+’ or ‘5.5’ would probably be safer from a marketing point of view (and more accurate, from the looks of things).
I agree that F/A-XX and ATD-X (and China will probably field a J-10 successor in the same timeframe) will likely be evolutionary rather than revolutionary in nature.
USAF could probably afford to wait for a true revolutionary ‘6th gen’, the problem is that whereas the F-35 is to be USAFs ‘lo’ it’s the Navy’s ‘hi’ and it’s the Navy which is more likely to be taking point on a conflict with a near-peer adversary in any case. The Navy’s requirements will dictate a new platform by 2030. Add to that the financial pressure for joint development programs (F-15Es will be retiring around the same time) and there you have it.
Using when an airplane enters production as a basis for it’s “generation” is just silly. By that definition the JF-17, J-10, & the LCA Tejas are a generation beyond the F-16/F-15.
Not really. The generational concept is used because it’s useful. It’s defining characteristics are pragmatic and devoid of external logic. Like the Westminster system. 😉
The concept as it is usually employed is based upon the evolution of American airpower. The reason F-22 is only considered a 5th gen aircraft rather than a 6th gen aircraft with Rafale/Gripen/Tiffy as 5th gen has nothing to do with their technical qualities as an aircraft, and everything to do with the fact that America skipped what would’ve been called the 5th gen entirely. For another indicator that this is the case, note that there are three generations of French aircraft (Mirage F1, Mirage 2000, Rafale) which correspond imperfectly to two American generations. If Russia had actually fielded the MFI there would’ve been a similar problem to match it to the standard system.
So it is not merely a matter of entry into service date, but also qualitative comparison between the nation and the baseline, i.e. you are matching to American platform equivalence. Obviously China and India are not currently on the same playing field as America.
I think Typhoon’s chances are much better than most folks here are willing to grant. F-35 doesn’t do anything for Japanese industry (and is a questionable match for Japan’s requirements in the first place) and whilst Super Hornet has some fine qualities I don’t think it can compete at all with Typhoon under the A2A-centric performance-based criteria Japan is likely to employ, and the criteria Super Hornet fares best on – price and maturity – are of little significance to Japan. Japanese industry would love to get its hands on a platform with as much unexplored potential as Typhoon and a relatively free hand to explore it.
So it’s a question of capability vs. politics, however consider that JMSDF ordered Merlin helicopters from Europe (to replace existing American platforms) back in 2003. Also consider that the DPJ is now in power. When the DPJ wrested Japan from a half-century of LDP rule, one of their election platforms was to renegotiate the relationship between Japan and the US, i.e. to assert Japanese independence. However the DPJ has found it difficult to translate this policy into practice given Japan’s national lethargy coupled with the evolving strategic environment (i.e. China) and most recently of course the earthquake. Former Prime Minister Hatoyama resigned last year in large part due to his government’s failure to secure America’s eviction from Okinawa as he promised the electorate. So the DPJ – if it remains in power – is going to be looking for opportunities to assert Japan’s independence from the US without actually compromising the relationship and thereby Japanese security. A Typhoon buy would fit the bill perfectly. America might prefer that Japan buy American, but they’re hardly going to withdraw from the Pacific over it, and Japan’s excuse – “we wanted to buy American but you wouldn’t let us” – is a pretty good one.
Regarding ATD-X, I’m not sure how many here are keeping in mind that the research effort of which this demonstrator is a part is meant to translate into an operational platform only in the 2025-2030 timeframe. The recent earthquake will not significantly affect these plans. Short-term funding delays pushing the program back a year or two perhaps.
Every jump in generational capability is causally marked…
… by whom?
The list of characteristics you’ve outlined is a good one – even if many of them are also possessed by 4th-gen aircraft – but at the end of the day the conceptual framework of aircraft generations is one that exists entirely in the mind. Having no objective existence, the framework is bent to serve the needs of whoever is applying it. We have already seen how Lockheed Martin retroactively ditched supercruise from the list of 5th-gen characteristics so as to be able to classify F-35 as a 5th-gen aircraft.
ATD-X (Japan) and F/A-XX (US) are the two fighter programs we know of intended to be fielded post 2025, i.e. over a generation after the F-22 entered service and it is likely that both – as products that can reasonably be assumed to represent the state of the art at service entry date – will be referred to as 6th gen by their manufacturers on that basis alone.
If Lula was still President the story could well have been true.
Maybe Serbia could pool with other Balkan nations to purchase a squadron or three of Mig-35s. Ownership could be rotated on a daily basis: Serbia has an Air Force Mondays and Thursdays.
Really… 6th Gen?
Sure, why not?
In any case: April Fools.
Aren’t April Fools stories meant to be funny? :confused:
F-35 is hardly a good comparison. Maybe if there’d been a dedicated CAS program to replace the A-10/AV-8 the resulting aircraft would have featured an armoured cockpit, who knows?