Hang on . . . European manufacturers make (& sell at a profit) more helicopters than those of the USA (& trash ’em in the civil market, where buyers are less influenced by politics), & far more than the rest of the world combined, but somehow they’re short of money & falling behind technically? :confused:
I would’ve thought the last few years would’ve put an end to Euro complacency of all kinds, but apparently not. The present is bright, therefore the future is bright — I love it. 😉
Meaning what exactly?
Don’t feed the trolls.
Heroic actions by the pilots, may they rest in peace.
I don’t understand what you mean.
Americans might be investing into new gen, but in the meantime, European producers are stealing the worldwide market with designs like AW139, AW149, EC135, EC145, EC120.
Sure, that’ll work for the next decade or so. After that the Americans with their FVL-derived next-gen platforms will eat the high-end and the Chinese will eat the low end.
The Russian investment into new platforms like Mi-38 or Ka-62 is nice, but ain’t that just catching up designs which are already established on the market (AW101, AW139..)?
Yes, but it indicates that Russia is serious about returning to the market and R&D projects are being funded accordingly for both military and civilian applications over the short, medium, and long-term. Contrast to Europe where the state funding outlook is dismal and almost certain to get worse.
Korea- KUH, nothing much else
India – Dhruv, what else?
Turkey – you mean Italian A129 now?
Brazil – no idea, what do they make, except licensed Esquilos and Panthers?
Japan, South Africa – dtto
Did you miss that I was talking on generational timescales i.e. post-2035? Who cares what these countries are making now, the point is they will continue to develop and build on that experience and make more stuff in future, reducing access to those domestic markets and potentially competing for exports also.
Frankly, I see Europe as the major player on the civilian market for decades to come.. They might not be that willing to invest into hi-speed projects which might eventually end up a costly, yet economically useless adventure (I love the Raider, BTW) but they truly stick to what they do best..
Problem with the civilian market is that they won’t fund the R&D necessary to make transformational leaps. The American government is doing that (for military applications) and eventually the benefits will percolate into the civilian market. Similar story for the Russians and Chinese, although they are of course significantly further behind.
Something I’ve been wondering for a while: in the medium/long-term, just how screwed is the European helicopter industry?
The Americans are preparing to leap into the next-generation with FVL.
The Russians are on the cusp of fielding a new generation of platforms (Mi-38, Ka-60/62) and are also investing in high-speed helicopter projects (e.g. RACHEL)
The Chinese are advancing by leaps and bounds.
And of course there’s Korea, India, Turkey, Brazil, Japan, South Africa — most of which can be assumed to play larger roles going forward than they have in the past.
… and the Europeans are simply coasting on past achievements, with minimal state investment in the present and even more dismal prospects for the future. Even the X3 as a modification of AS365 is clearly driven by a scarcity of funds. Let’s not forget the X4 walkback and the seemingly extinct European heavy helicopter project.
A generation from now (>2035) will Europe still be relevant?
Nah, it has very little to do with actual “socialism” per se, as we have already concluded. But most of these things are “remnants” of a socialist society (or glaring indications of its origins).
It’s origins are in Russia. Modern Russia did not wipe the slate clean of the Soviet Union, but nor did the Soviet Union wipe the slate clean of Imperial Russia before her. Russian statism predates the Soviet Union, and survived it. To describe these features as “socialist” is (amongst other things) to obscure their deeper origins in Russian history and culture.
The likely numbers of heavy transports (i.e. A400M-class and above) to be acquired would seem to preclude much in the way of domestic industry involvement.
“Maintain what we have” is vastly better than every major review since 1990 Options for Change.
The UK wouldn’t have any issues funding necessary capabilities — Trident included — if it stopped buying into wasteful, unnecessary, and largely counter-productive joyrides in the Middle East and beyond. But then it’s always been easy to write cheques today that will only come due over the next generation. I expect the same to be true of this recent SDSR “commitment” — ironclad until it isn’t.
The other obvious candidate of C-130J is missing as well. Given that C-130J would make a far more sensible Hercules replacement than C-17, perhaps Indonesia is courting only heavier platforms at this juncture to complement a future KC-390/Il-214 buy. If that is the case, the question becomes whether A400M offers enough additional capability over those platforms to justify the investment.
The Russian strategy makes some kind of sense in that light also. Clearly they would be pitching Il-76-PS90A and touting the benefits of sharing a common engine with Il-214.
Of course there are political and strategic factors at work also e.g. dependency concerns that could work to undermine the (already dubious) Russian case and bolster the prospects for A400M.
lol, seems someone has a chip on their shoulder. 😉
If it helps you feel better, A400M would certainly be more sensible for Indonesia than C-17 or the unspecified (but clearly ludicrous) Russian option.
It is the omission of KC-390 from the article that demands explanation, however. A failure on the writer’s end, or a reflection of ongoing trouble in the Indo-Brazilian relationship?
KC-390’s still out there, but development may be slowed down because the Brazilian government’s short of cash. It’s flown, & development is continuing. Slightly wider & higher cargo box than C-130, slightly longer than the basic C-130, & can lift a bit more cargo.
It would make more sense as C-130 replacement than A400M or C-17, certainly for a nation like Indonesia where accessibility is a major issue.
Further Indonesia is already on record as being interested in the aircraft.
But then there is the recent spat over Indonesia executing Brazilian citizens, withdrawal of ambassadors, etc.
What happened to KC-390? Don’t tell me that Indo-Brazilian spat is still going on.
Another Prime Ministerial whim bites the dust. If only we were so lucky with the rest of them.
lighter avionics and new engines close the gap. Tu-214 is already designed with excess fuel tanks. no such design in drawing board at moment for MS21. It will be post 2025 before it can be certified.
The timeline issue is probably the overriding factor, combined with lack of military enthusiasm for PD-14 as demonstrated with MTA.
Livefist: Airbus-Mahindra Announce JV for Indian Helo Goldmine
“Both companies will now get into discussions to finalize the formation of the joint venture which will act as the prime contractor for India’s military helicopter tenders including the Reconnaissance and Surveillance Helicopter, the Naval Utility Helicopter and the Naval Multirole Helicopter procurement programs. The resulting joint venture aims to become the first private Indian helicopter manufacturer under the ‘Make in India’ initiative. This will create hundreds of high-tech jobs locally and lead to a flow of cutting edge technologies to India should it be selected in the governmental helicopter tenders,” a joint statement said.
“Well, duh.”
P.S. Lots of great H-6K shots coming out of the parade rehearsals:
