I wonder when the Airline made a good profit if they increased employees wages……

60163 Class A1 60163 is not a train, its a locomotive and a brand new one to boot. A train is made up of a locomotive and coaches/carriages. This distinction is really important and the media really hacks me off when they use the description of a locomotive as a train on the TV, newspapers etc. It’s important to me because I’m a steam locomotive enthusiast as well as a heritage aviation enthusiast and, well, you know how it is with enthusiasts. And, before you ask, yes I have had quite a good day today which was topped off by seeing a lancaster fly past my window about 20 mins ago. (It happens a lot round here as does seeing “Tornado” passing through my local railway station so, to reflect briefly, I’m quite lucky really so I’d better stop whinging right now!)

Aaand….calm…. 😀

Let’s keep things polite Bloodnok. Suffice to say you’re completely off-track if you think I’ve had nothing to do with aircraft and/or the RAF. However I’m prompted to add if that really is your attitude to shifting one week’s work to a weekend to show your Air Force to the public, then maybe you’re in the wrong job!

Anyway, if we’re going to conduct a sensible discssion here, then let’s proceed. I don’t accept that I’m being “hard” on organisers at all. I think this is part of the problem. We’ve developed this notion that the show organisers are somehow beyond reproach but for no good reason. As I’ve said, they are there to organise an event for which we pay – simple as that. Okay, we can do all the usual disclaimers about accepting the realities of the RAF’s current predicament, costs, safety, logistics and all the rest but this gets us nowhere. Point is, no matter how you look at it, people are drifting away from air shows because they’re not as entertaining as they were. We know why, but to simply say “the organisers do their best” is rather pointless. Surely, there’s a case for looking at ways to do things more effectively?

As for your point VX927 well that’s fair enough – you have your view but I don’t share it. I don’t imagine for a minute that kids watching the Brietling Team or sitting in a plastic replica is going to inspire them to join the RAF even for a minute. As somebody said somewhere only a few days ago, I think it’s easy to underestimate people’s intelligence. Nobody with any interest in military aircraft is going to be “bought off” by civilian acts. The civvy stuff amuses the wider public and that’s all.

The way I see it, the conventional air show format is certainly good for attracting the general public and for raising money. If that’s what Waddington wants out of the show then fine, good luck to them of course. But the show was (is?) supposedly the RAF’s “showcase event” and quite how it achieves this aim I really can’t see. Okay, I accept that a great deal is beyond the organiser’s control but surely this suggests that they should be making a case to their superiors to look at the show differently? It’s easy to say that they are constrained by rules and constraints but one is prompted to say that maybe the rules should be changed then?

As for not liking the idea of seeing aircraft take-off, land, overshoot, taxy or whatever, well again I guess that’s down to personal taste but I suspect that a potential recruit would much rather see that kind of activity than a bunch of aircraft stuck behind barriers and tents, and a collection of civilian flying demonstrations. I know for certain that most enthusiasts would. But the fundamental point is that Waddington is supposed to be the RAF’s show and yet it’s increasingly looking like a distinctly civilian “air fete” which merely includes the usual RAF “star acts” and little more. Surely, when the show has reached this stage, there’s a case for asking whether things can’t be done in a very different way?

As I say, I’m sure little will change while the crowds keep coming. I have no problems with that – I hope everyone has a good time and the show raises lots of money. But where is the RAF’s “showcase event”, where is the PR, where is the recruiting attraction? It’s gone, and unless someone tries to do something different it ain’t gonna be coming back.

You are full of contradictions Chox and show no sympathy at all for the people who put on air shows for your entertainment.

I put the point again, say you are working really hard at your job, long hours, pressure etc. and then your boss just ups and says, “oh by the way, we want you to work weekends all summer (for no extra money!)” would you be happy to do that?

Again you totally miss the point, many kids are thrilled when they sit in the replica cockpits that the RAF drag around village fetes etc, so doing the same at an airshow will hold the same appeal. You say these sorts of shows “are good at attracting the general public”….that’s exactly the people they want to attract for recruiting purposes, die hard military aircraft fans will probably join up anyway.

People are “drifting away from airshows”….. yes, they had to press gang members of the public to get into Cosford last weekend!

To quote you… “Okay, I accept that a great deal is beyond the organiser’s control but surely this suggests that they should be making a case to their superiors to look at the show differently? It’s easy to say that they are constrained by rules and constraints but one is prompted to say that maybe the rules should be changed then?”

That’s just it. you don’t seem to accept this, the organise of Waddington has posted on here saying that there just aren’t the aircraft around this year, he can’t just magic them up! you seem to dismiss the very valid reasons why there aren’t the aircraft around, yet offer no realistic solution on how to address the issue.
People are very quick to slag off shows, be it a village fete, vintage car show or air show when they’ve never had to organise one, try organising one yourself, then see how easy it is!

Its 64-14859 a C-130E/H operated by the 352nd SOG at RAF Mildenhall. Previously it was a HC-130P and then an EC-130E and is now back to a plain C-130E/H.

All the special ops Hercs are painted like that at Mildenhall. Nothing special to it (apart from its history)

It’s still a bit special. The intake for the cargo bay air conditioning pack has been moved to the top of the undercarriage blister, and both blisters have been considerably extended.

Care to elaborate?

Very poor spares package leading to lots of robberies, Westlands have to get structural repairs cleared through Boeing leading to delays, no access to build drawings etc, etc.
It’s a right b*ggers muddle to try and work with, and i’d hope they’ve learnt many lessons from this contract so it won’t be repeated in any future purchase.

Is there a service repair scheme for the Sea Fury that entails the removal of the cockpit, wings, centre section and rear fuselage?

I wonder why you would ask this question, do you really think i’d have access to that kind of information, would anyone on here?

Just playing devils advocate here;)

If you bring the item down to an everyday level,i e NOT an aircraft we all want to see and hear flying but bring it down to a car,a car you saw advertised as “a b c” but after you bought it it turned out to be not quite “a b c ” i wonder if the buyer will still feel the same.
Anyway,whatever Fury she is,she looks lovely and hopefully will sound gorgeous as well.

Believe me when I say the debates are very similar when it comes to historic/vintage cars and the amount of original material contained within them and it’s origins.