bloodnokI also read recently, that Luftwaffe Tornados have their variable inlet doors locked in a permanently ‘fully open’ position as a means of cutting down on maintenance?:confused:
That could be correct. The UK GR1’s had their intake ramps inhibited back in the mid 80’s. They couldn’t be used as the chin blister interfered with the airflow to the engine on that side when going supersonic, so instead of doing maintenance on something you can’t use, you inhibit it.
bloodnokThanks everyone for your replies. I only paid a couple of quid for it, so unless anyone wants it off me I’ll stick it on ebay and see if it can find a new home.
bloodnokYou’re on the right lines for bend allowance, if you google it there are plenty of sites that give you tables and formula on how to do it.
Usually the waterjet cutter will actually drill pilot holes for the rivets (3/32″ or 2.4mm) when the blank is being cut out. Dont forget the postioning of the rivet holes are subject to certain rules on how close together they can go, and how close to the edge.
When you beat metal around a curved former the flange you’ve just beaten over will force the flat flange that’s clamped in the former to curve when you remove it out of the former.
To straighten it you use tools called shrinkers or stretchers on the beaten flange to pull or push it straight. A simple way to imagine how these tools work is to take a right angle length of metal and if you shrink it then stretch it you can make an ‘s’ shape out of it, or even a continuos circle.
bloodnokFirebird, I’m sure you are right. I have certainly shared your desire in the past to see professionalism in software and related industries instead of what might be described as shambling amateurism. But look at the thing as it is. The field of Avro Lancaster replicas is not now sufficiently profitable to justify significant investment. I would love to have a copy of Catia; but only if I had a business plan to support it. Most of us in this area are now retired and do not have the physical energy to create new business opportunities. Also I certainly started with the very firm conviction that there is no essential difference between 3D visualisation and manufacturing data and they are just two different manifestations of the same thing. If I succeed, I’m right; otherwise I’m shot down in flames.
Now to move onto other aspects. One of the two users of my data is a professional engineer with a fully equipped workshop and clearly has more than sufficient experience of turning ideas into metal. I on the other hand am totally innocent of the relevant exigencies. Before my retirement, I was a software engineer at Texas Instruments spending most of my life with computers both theoretically and practically. So you could say that reality is always virtual for me. But the idea of providing the data in a format suitable for the cutting of former/frame blanks from Alclad 20 gauge by laser did occur to me.
My engineer friend strongly dissuaded me of this. The formers/frames have flanges at complicated angles to and radiused joints with the faces. Forgive my terminology; it was thought nearly impossible to cold-draw the flanges from the former blanks without cracking them. The only option was thought to be a process of heating and annealing using wooden masters to produce the desired shape. So the first part of my job is to provide data to enable wooden masters to be created.
The second part of my job is to ensure that all individual components fit together correctly. The most critical area in this respect is the fit of the stringers to the formers/frames. I’m hoping that the completed formers can be jigged accurately enough to allow the stringers to give the correct curves and lie correctly. But it is extremely important that I give the location of the stringer slots or cut-outs in the formers correctly.
The third part of my job is to give the position correctly of the various holes that are used to mount the various items of equipment. Perhaps this is not so critical as the equipment itself determines the position of the mounting holes. But I can’t be too far out.
The fourth part of my job is to understand the structure as well as I can and to provide a 3D visualisation as complete and as accurate as I can manage. This was my original intention and my starting objective.
My best to all
Mike
I really admire your skill with the computer etc, but it does come across as if you are trying to relearn how to do engineering drawings.
The 3d views of the joints and intercostals etc are very pretty, but don’t give any useful data for someone assembling or drilling off the fastener holes.
When making bits for aircraft you usually have drawings that let you make the component, then you have more drawings showing the fastener pitching and location and the component fitted in place.
There should also be included information on the metal spec, any treatment it may require, surface finish, fasteners to be used or any other processes that should used in the manufacture and fitting of the part.
Can someone you know can lend you a simple set of drawing to show the sort of information you need?
I hope you take this as constructive criticism, from someone who makes bits for aircraft as part of his day job, and not just a slagging off. 🙂
bloodnokGrey one is Tristar flight engineers panel.
Left hand side, half way up. (by the three yellow dots)
bloodnok2 Gnats at Wattisham today, doing a very nice air display!
bloodnokWhooaa Nice one Jenny 🙂
Not all King Airs are at Cranwell and was just going on a post on Egoat regarding some Corporals getting licence courses for them..
As for FTRS, that is exactly what I meant, previously when your Service time was up you would depart the RAF and be replaced by other Service personnel.
Now using the losing skills argument they re-employ those staff under the Reserve Service scheme for departing personnel with useful skills.
Wrap it up in any fancy title you want, but 1/6th of your turnover of staff has ceased and as such as they get older and “retire,” the skill set from new blood coming into the BBMF has been degraded, because the replacements for those 5 that would have joined the BBMF and trained up are simply not there, add to that, once you take out of the 30 bods the stores staffing etc, the portion is probably even higher than the 1/6th of the engineering staff…
That is why business, both civil and military need a turnover of staff, newer members joining to replace those leaving at the end of their careers to maintain a throughput of skills being passed on to the next.
Without it you hit crunch time sometime in the future where those staff get to an age where they cannot continue and you find you have a lack of those qualified to take their place.danjama yes it is me.
The other thing I see a lot where I work, is a lot of ex forces who have been out for years, then due to the recent economic situation coming back in to aircraft maintenance, reducing the input of new blood still further.
bloodnokHad a nice Red Arrows Gnat doing circuits and landed for a bit at Wattisham this afternoon.
bloodnokI’m not sure the RAF do city and guilds these days. They certainly do NVQ’s, and they are recognised in civvy street.
Military aircraft maintenance is now governed by MAOS, which is effectively civvy standard, and has tightened up a lot of things!
bloodnokOne other point to note that’s not really been touched on yet is that if you want to work on aircraft you may well have to move. Most towns have car garages , but not many have airports or aircraft maintenance facilities so you have to move to where the work or training is.
Even colleges doing aircraft training courses are fairly well spread.
I’d also echo as others have said, get some qualifications, as that seems more important these days than experience. You don’t need to go the licensed route initially and you can still have a very satisfying career as an unlicensed mechanic, just on a smaller salary.
bloodnokMany thanks for the replies gentlemen. Once again I’m amazed at the knowledge to be found on this forum!
bloodnokCivil Soviet airliners sometimes strayed off track near Strumble Head to take photos of the missile test facility at Aberporth West Wales.
We used to get Russian Trawlers with an amazing ammount of aerials off the coast from Valley when the buccs were doing Sea Eagle trials at STCAAME.
bloodnok‘.
My own contribution.. it remains, as it has done in the past, under the radar.
Now this sort of thing really annoys me, and it happens far too much on these boards!
I’m a casual enthusiast who reads these boards to keep up to date with what’s going on in the old aircraft world and get heartily fed up with cryptic posts. ‘I know something you don’t’ or ‘I know more than you but aren’t going to say’.
From the outside looking in, all you’ve contributed to this thread is to say people are wrong without adding any facts to back it up and almost belittle other peoples opinions based on this mysterious notion that you know the facts and they don’t.
If you truely know how much the quote was years ago to remove the glass wall why not say how much it was instead of just coming across all up yourself by saying everyone is wrong but you know better! What possible reason can there be for not putting out your version of the price? If it was years ago it’s hardly going to be commercially sensitive.
Who are you to say people can’t have opinions or discuss public buildings? One persons opinion is just as valid as another.
Then when you get the chance to mention your contribution to the aircraft preservation world you just come across all cryptic again and say you’ll stay under the radar!
You may well be a very respected person in the old aircraft scene, or you may just be someone with an inflated sense of their own worth, but who ever you are why not just post up some facts to back up your points instead of being all cryptic!
bloodnokNope. Quite true. I’m not trying to blame the woes of a nation on a bunch of people paid slightly below the minimum wage though.
I’d like to see some facts to back up your assertion that there are MOD civil servants on below minimum wage salaries.
bloodnokI love the way everyone has gone off ranting, without even knowing the facts behind the initial story. Lots of assumptions all over the place.
The price quoted is for a domestic light bulb.
I work on an Army establishment as a civvy (not MOD civil servant, I’m expected to work for a living), all the maintenance of buildings is contracted out to companies like Babcocks. Some stuff is included in the contract, other stuff isn’t. Some of the prices quoted for work required are absolutely staggering, but the companies are tied in by the pricing structure in the contract they have signed with the MOD.
So in short, the people who are to blame for the silly prices quoted are the ones who wrote the contract, which I assume will be defence procurement or somewhere else in the MOD.
As for civil servants , like any trade there are good and bad, but they don’t half have an easy life. The ones I have contact with are on bad money, but have good pensions, and haven’t worked a full week since they’ve been there!
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