Democracy doesn’t make the press more tolerated and acceptable liars. It just makes you worse. A dictatorship maybe a liar but you’re a liar and a hypocrite. You’re just fishing now. Thinking that democracies make lying more acceptable than in a non-democracy. LOL!!!!!!!!!
Where are those Russian long range bombers the press said were sold to China? Just go on believing ignoring it means it never happened, right?
Does Israeli official denial of any involvement in J-10 project mean an unquestionable proof for you? 😉
For the same reason they supply RD-93 engines for Pakistani FC-1s..
That is completely irrelevant for this topic.
You seem not to be paying attention. I’m using his own hypocritical logic against him so it’s irrelevent what I believe. It’s his arguments that are under scrutiny. If he thinks because it was printed in the press it has to be true then he also has to believe that the press has said before the Israeli government denies involvement in the J-10. Just like the press said Russia is selling their surplus long range bombers to China. Where are they? That story was a couple years ago.
Keep repeating yourself. It doesn’t change anything. Deny… confirm… reliable… unreliable… Same old media crapping out info you use to confirm and then discount. If Israel denied helping China on the J-10 and you believe otherwise, then there goes your argument that Israel is reliable and tells the truth. Again you never answered the questions from the very beginning. Why would the Russians under cut themselves helping the competition in providing engines for those J-10s? Also can a J-10 slip past the US military in between Israel and Iran? So when is this Iranian sneak attack on Israel going to happen when the US is between for the long haul? Also where are those Russian long range bombers the Russian media said were being sold to China?
here we have some data about how cheap was the Lavi with respect the F-16 this sources states the IAI lavi was cheaper in over all terms to the F-16
Сравнительная стоимость самолетов Лави и F-16 (млн. долл., цены по курсу 1982 ф. г.) Лави F16
НИОКР и остнастка 1500
Производство 300 самолетов 3270 4380
Начальные закупки 1730 3066
Стоимость эксплуатации в течении 15 лет
Запчасти 2240 2823
Топливо 1280 1620
Техническое обслуживание 940 1160
Итого 10960 13039Comparative cost Lavi aircraft and F-16 (millions of dollars, the price at the rate of £ 1982. D.)
Lavi / F16
R & D and development costs 1500 /
Production of 300 aircraft 3270 / 4380
Initial purchases 1730 / 3066
The cost of operation for a period of 15 years spares Parts 2240 / 2823
Fuel 1280 / 1620
Maintenance 940 1160
Total 10960 / 13039Total Lavi / F-16
10960 / 13039So as you can see the Lavi was cheaper and what about agility?
Мгновенная угловая скорость разворота у самолета “Лави” должна быть выше, чем у самолетов F-15, F-16, F/A-18 и “Мираж” 2000, скорость крена 300 град/с, максимальные эксплуатационные перегрузки +9 … -3
The instantaneous angular velocity of the aircraft turn “Lavi” should be higher than that of the F-15, F-16, F/A-18 and the Mirage 2000, the speed of roll 300 degrees / sec, maximum operating overload +9 /-3.
source
http://iafrus.narod.ru/aircraft/aircraft/mainpage_5111.htm
in fact the Lavi was terminated not because it was a failure but contrary because it was better than the F-16
All you’re doing burying yourself hiding behind the contradictory media and government sources that you tried to use to support your arguments but now question because other times can be noted they don’t fit with your agenda.
More hypocrisy coming those that use the relibility and unreliabilty and credible and “incredible” information of the same media and government source they use to their contradictory whim. Sounds like desperation especially from those who themselves have shown nothing and can only hide behind the West and Russia and not their own.
I love the hypocrites who hide behind the media when it serves their agenda. How about all those articles that have the Israeli government denying helping China with the J-10? There goes so-called reliable and credible information.
Man i am not bashing any country, i am just reminding you the Chinese Government has little credibility in the international arena, only time will tell. the Russians or israelies said something they might be wrong it is true, however the chinese government is not very reliable for the West too.
Chinese government “reliable?” As in what? Giving you personally accurate information? I’ll tell you the standard statement of the Chinese government. It’s called nothing. They don’t comment on things regarding the military.
You’ve got to be kidding if you think Russian or Israeli governments and media are reliable. They have their political agendas or the world therefore will lie and manipulate it for their own agendas.
My own theory is that the J-10 is based on Japan’s FSX, not Israel Lavi.
Having said that, here’s a list of aircrafts with canard layout:
*[[AEA Silver Dart]]
*[[Atlas Cheetah]]
*[[B-1 Lancer]]
*[[Beechcraft Starship|Beech Starship]]
*[[Berkut 360]]
*[[Chengdu J-9]]
*[[Chengdu J-10]]
*[[Cozy MK IV]]
*[[Curtiss-Wright]] CW-24B
*[[Curtiss-Wright]] [[XP-55 Ascender]]
*[[Dassault Rafale]]
*[[Eurofighter Typhoon]]
*[[Grumman X-29A]]
*[[IAI Kfir]]
*[[IAI Lavi]] the “Chosen One”, so they must invented it
*[[Kyūshū J7W|Kyūshū J7W1 ”Shinden”]]
*[[McDonnell Douglas]] (now [[Boeing]]) [[F-15 S/MTD]]
*[[Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-8|MiG-8 ”Utka”]]
*[[Miles Libellula]]
*[[SM-64 Navaho|North American SM-64 Navaho]]
*[[North American X-10]]
*[[Peterson 260SE]] (a [[Cessna 182]] with an added canard for [[STOL]] operations)
|
*[[Piaggio P180 Avanti]] (fixed canard)
*[http://ibis.experimentals.de RJ.03 IBIS]
*[[Rockwell-MBB X-31]]
*[[Rutan Defiant]]
*[[Rutan Long-EZ]]
*[[Rutan Quickie]]
*[[Rutan VariEze]]
*[[Rutan VariViggen]]
*[[Santos-Dumont 14-bis]]
*[[Saab Viggen]]
*[[JAS 39 Gripen|Saab Gripen]]
*[[Steve Wright Stagger-Ez]]
*[[Sukhoi Su-30 MKI]]
*[[Sukhoi Su-33]]
*[[Sukhoi Su-35]]
*[[Sukhoi Su-37]]
*[[Sukhoi Su-47]]
*[[Sukhoi T-4]]
*[[Tupolev Tu-144]]
*[[Velocity SE]]
*[[Velocity XL]]
*[[Wright Flyer]] Wilbur and Orville should be given credit for the canard
*[[XB-70 Valkyrie]]
source: wikipedia.org
And the Japanese must’ve stole that from the Eurofighter guys.
And China has been labelled a communist threat for the last 60 years. They’ve had traded with the Arab world for over a thousand. So either the Israelis are dumb like you suggest or their help on the J-10 was insignificant that China could’ve easily gotten it from someone else like the Russians. What do the Israels know that China possesses that couldn’t be obtained from other means foreign and domestic?
Man why you do not see these reports have been written by no forum members, these reports are from mostly Russian and Israeli news agencies you might not like them of course it is obvious why, but at least see these reports were written by Israeli and Russians authors and basicly claim things they might know simply because both nations were involved in the J-10 program.
For some Israelies this has become like a national tragedy because their own technology has fallen into one of Israel`s main political rivals in the middle east.
Are the Israelis that dumb to you? Why would they help the Chinese make a fighter that might be used against them? If anyone help more it would be the Russians and not Israel. And why would the Russians help on selling Iran J-10s when it’s in competition with their own fighters. They’ve shown in other parts of the world in trying to cut into potential Chinese customers to sell their own fighters.
Again, you believe everything from the media? Is the Israeli media any different?
I see some of the usual suspects in here that claimed the FC-1 was a failed design because it has gone through more than one design change. So by your logic the Lavi is a failed design and the J-10 is a successful original domestic design since it’s airframe is larger. So if you can’t fiind an EXACT “original” that the J-10 is copied from, by your own logic, the J-10 is an original since it’s larger and nothing inside is a copy or exported technology from the US or Israel.
Just found these pictures. H-6K apparently, note the optical turret under the nose. Furthermore the nose has the classic look of a chinese nose that contains a radar. Any details or is this just another fan boy PS job?:confused:
Analysis: China attains nuclear strategic strike capability
HONG KONG, Sep. 7
ANDREI CHANG
Column: Military Might
China has been upgrading its H-6 bombers and producing H-6K bombers in an effort to improve its aerial nuclear strategic deterrence. The subsonic speed of the H-6 and non-stealthy sorties prevented it from breaking through the air defense networks of Russia, the United States and Japan. Fitted with D-30-P2 engines of greater thrust power, the new H-6K has a greatly increased range and combat payload. The two engines, each with a thrust power of 12,000 kilograms, may enhance the H-6K’s ammunition capacity to around 12 tons, enabling it to carry large long-range cruise missiles.
Before 2006 China had no effective long-range air-launched cruise missiles. Judging from their exterior structure, the range of the YJ-63 cruise missiles it has fitted on the H-6H is no more than 200 kilometers. The deployment of this cruise missile in its 10th Bomber Division appears to be aimed at reinforcing strike capability on tactical targets in Taiwan.
The H-6K has a reinforced fuselage structure and uses more composite materials, and the hardpoints fitted on it are also newly designed. Armed with long-range cruise missiles, even though it is still a subsonic bomber, the H-6K now has the operational capability to project nuclear deterrence. The fire control software of the H-6K will also undergo necessary modifications.
A careful analysis of the configuration of the six cruise missiles loaded on the H-6K bomber, a picture of which appeared recently on Chinese Web sites, indicates that China may have imitated the Russian KH-55A air-launched cruise missiles. In the mid-1990s China acquired six such missiles from Ukraine through smuggling — a feat confirmed by Ukrainian authorities.
Although the image of the H-6K is blurred, it can be seen that the air-intake channel is close to the stabilizing fin at the tail, very similar to the pneumatic structure of the KH-55A. This indicates that the H-6K bomber is powered by turbofan engines. This photo also indicates that China very likely has started to produce a Chinese version of the KH-55.
The KH-55 and KH-55SM can be either conventional or nuclear cruise missiles. It is not likely that the development of such long-range aggressive weapons was intended for conventional offensive operations. Such missiles can be armed with a 200-kiloton nuclear warhead. Thus the Chinese version of the KH-55 could be fitted with both conventional and nuclear warheads. The KH-55 has a length of 8.09 meters and a diameter of 0.514 meters — 0.77 meters for the KH-55SM. The KH-55 has a wingspan of 3.1 meters, a weight of 1,700 kilograms and a flying speed of Mach 0.48-0.77. The total weight of the 6 KH-55 missiles is 10.2 tons. These figures give some idea as to why China is upgrading its H-6H to the H-6K.
The acquisition of the H-6K and new generation long-range cruise missile is an epoch-making event for the PLA Air Force. When used for conventional precision offensive operations, the Chinese KH-55 fired from Chinese air space will put the entire Korean peninsula within strike range, and also much of Japan, including the whole of Okinawa, parts of Honshu island and all of Kyushu and Shikoku.
If the Chinese KH-55 has the 2,500-kilometer strike range of the original Russian KH-55, H-6K bombers taking off from an airport in northeast China could directly launch attacks within China’s own air space upon almost all targets in Tokyo, Hokkaido and Honshu. Moreover, the H-6K bombers deployed in the 8th Bomber Division under the southern Guangzhou Military Region could be forward-deployed and launch aerial attacks upon Guam.
From the official Chinese news release after the successful flight tests of the H-6K, it can be clearly sensed that the Chinese military has high expectations for this bomber. It is not just an upgraded variant of the H-6 or intended only for tactical purposes. The news release described its test flight as an event that “20,000 Xian Aircraft Company staff have been longing for, for 13 long years.” Guests invited to observe the maiden flight of the bomber included top leaders from the Central Military Commission and the Commission of Science, Technology and Industry for National Defense.
It appears that the entry into service of the H-6K has given the Chinese air force genuine operational capability to launch nuclear attacks upon adversary targets.
Andrei Chang a.k.a. Yihong Chang a.k.a. Pinkov is often quoted
to be the ‘editor’ of Kanwa publication (allegedly a Canadian
Publication). However, many believed him to a Japanese-influenced /
Japanese-inspired reporter.
Andrei Chang a.k.a. Yihong Chang a.k.a. Pinkov is notoriously
known for ‘sourcing’ his stories & pictures by combing through
& copying both articles & pictures from Chinese-language magazines,
articles & original writings.
In fact, he is so well known for pilfering stuff from other writers that many articles in Chinese magazines &
internet postings carried warnings specifically
directed at him: NOT TO BE COPIED BY PINKOV.If this article is indeed written by the same man, it is a supreme
Irony indeed – written by a man who knows all about copying!!
Don’t bother! If you’ve been here a while, you would know there’s a difference in believing and believing in what you only want to believe. You’re dealing with the latter here.
Oh and how do you forget how Russia is bold as ever not seen since Soviet times with the West. That wouldn’t be happening if relations with China weren’t civil. Russia and China don’t only deal militarily which accounts why the Russia economy is humming along these days.
What ever happened to all that bull that eveything military China has comes from the US. Now Russia? Make up your contradictory minds!
Tabloid news. Russia is using the same tactic on India. Is India doing the same thing to Russia? It’s all about the money. Wishful thinking since China’s military has shown less dependence on foreign systems. So it’s sort of pointless if the story were true that Russia would cut-off a major customer as if it were going to get any results.