I have to agree with Willow about the hangarage at Bruntingthorpe, such a development would benefit so many projects. I seem to remember the Walton family trying to get permission for such but were refused by the council as it did not fit the local plan. Better awareness and lobbying of local council and national media is required. As I have said before the Lottery will be more likely to consider a bid for hangar.

Doughnut

Is it just me, but I do not understand the last post. If you have something say please give a clue what your on about or a link to the origin of your information. ????????

DOUGHNUT

RE: German aircraft carrier

Not my usual interest but as I’am bored at work today try the web site http://members.rogers.com/admfisher/html/grafzepplin.html aplogies for the length but it is the diffinitive answer.

Graf Zeppelin
Germany’s almost completed aircraft carrier.

Unlike most other nations in World War II, Germany never had an operational aircraft carrier, although several projects were made before and during the war. The Graf Zeppelin was the only one of them which came close to completion – but never saw action.

With a size of about 23,300 ts (max.) and a length of 262,5 meters or 861 feet, it was about the same size as the American Yorktown class. Like other carriers that were planned and started before the war, the Graf Zeppelin had a remarkable strong main artillery, sixteen 15 cm/5.9 in. guns, twelve 10.5cm or 4.1in. heavy AA, 22 x 3,7 cm AA and 28 x 2 cm AA – a offensive stinger that was more than a contemporary CL. The ship was protected by a 100 mm or 3.9 in. (max.) armor belt and a 60 mm or 2.4 in. armored deck, the flight deck itself was only lightly armored.

Powered by a 200.000 shp turbine system – the most powerful installed on a German warship – it was projected to archive a top speed of 35 kn. To increase maneuverability (especially for passing the Kiel Canal) the carrier was equipped with two Vought-Schneider propellers in the bow.
Since Germany had no experience in carrier aviation, no special build aircraft were available. Therefore the air component of the ship consisted mainly on modified standard aircraft of the Luftwaffe: Me109T fighter aircraft, Ju 87 C dive bomber and Fi 167 torpedo bomber and reconnaissance planes. Only the Fi 167 was special designed for carrier use, those biplanes were almost able to fly as slow as a carrier at full speed. A total of 40 aircraft were planned to be stationed on the carrier.

The ship was laid down on December 28th 1936 at Deutsche Werke shipyard in Kiel as Flugzeugträger “A” and was launched two years later on December 8th 1936. The construction costs were 92,7 Mil. Reichsmark. It was projected that the ship would be completed by the end of 1940 – but this never happened. An interesting detail is that in 1935, a German commission visited Japan to inspect the carrier Akagi to gain information about aircraft carrier specific construction details.

In April 1940 the construction was stopped as the focus of Germanys naval construction changed to U-boats and the work on all incomplete major surface ships was stopped. The already installed guns were used for coastal defenses in Norway and the ships was transferred to Gotenhafen.

In 1942 it became obvious that the German Kriegsmarine would need aircraft carrier for further actions of the major surface units and therefore, the construction of the Graf Zeppelin was resumed. Now planed with the use of Me109Ts and Ju87C only, it was projected to complete the ship by the winter of 1943. The ship then should be stationed at Drontheim, at the south end of the Faettenfjord. Since the need for an aircraft carrier was seen as critical, several cruise ships like the Potsdam, Gneisenau, Europa and the Prinz Eugen class cruiser Seydlitz (which was completed about 95% at that time) were planed to be converted to aircraft carriers but work only started to convert the Seydlitz.

In December of 1942 the Graf Zeppelin was again transferred to Kiel to continue the construction, at this time, the 15 cm/5.9 in. guns were removed and transported to Norway. The Graf Zeppelin was towed to Stettin on 21.04.1943 where it stayed for the rest of the war. Two years later, on 25.04.1945 the ship was scuttled by explosives and sunk in the shallow waters, where it was captured by Soviet troops.

There are several versions in literature about the final fate of the Graf Zeppelin after the war. All state that the ship was made afloat again and was transported towards the Soviet Union. One version says that the ship was sunk after a mine hit on its way to Leningrad. Another version is that the ship capsized because of a heavy load of equipment stored in it. One possible fate mentioned is that the ship was completed by the Soviets after the war, but this sounds unrealistic.

With the access to Soviet archives, more and accurate information about what happened to the ship in Soviet hands is know. According to new Russian sources, the Graf Zeppelin was sunk after weapons tests in August 1947.

Being captured by Russians, Graf Zeppelin was renamed to IA-101 (Floating Base No. 101) on 03.02.1947. On 16.08.1947 the carrier has been sunk as a target ship off Swinemünde. Graf Zeppelin sank as they “scored” 24 bombs and torpedo hits, including two 1000 kg bombs. Those bombs were mounted directly on board of the ship, one of them was even the funnel. As it exploded, the funnel was completely destroyed up to the top deck, but the superstructures of the island remained intact. Two 500 kg bombs, three 250 kg and five 100 kg bombs plus four 180 mm 92 kg shells were used on the ship. All these charges were mounted upon the flight deck and hangar deck. Six training bombs dropped from the dive bombers and two 53,3 cm/21 in. torpedoes from the torpedo boat OE-503 and destroyer Slavniy were fired on the ship. The last torpedo scored the fatal hit, 23 minutes after the it, the Graf Zeppelin sunk.

The Graf Zeppelins sister ship, the “Flugzeugträger B” (the possible name Peter Strasser is mentioned in literature very often) was laid down at the Krupp Germaniawerft in Kiel in autumn of 1938, but construction was stopped at the beginning of World War II. It was purposed that they wait until the first carrier was operational to include modifications in the ships design. In February of 1942 however, the ship was scrapped in the shipyard.

RE: DONUTS

Willow. You will usually find me in the beer tent, favourite beer Shepherd Neeme Spitfire of course. Have not seen you at Duxford recently, are you feeling better after the unfortunate Mk IV Zephyr incident : >)

DOUGHNUT

RE: Canada Aviation Museum Collection – the Lib

Does the museum have a web site ?

RE: Rebuild or Replica??

The skill and dedication of the people responsible for carrying out these projects should be applauded. So long as their work is not misrepresented to either the general public or a potential buyer then I see no problem. Most restoration groups will try to use original construction techniques where possible, parts can be remanufactured and engines overhauled and replaced, as they were when in operational service. If the aircraft is being restored to fly then by necessity some changes may have to be made to suit current regulation, although this is best kept to the minimum.
Some recent projects highlight both the good and the bad. A good example being Me-109G ‘Black 6’ well researched and done by a dedicated and caring team, for the love of it. The team that produced the Grumman Biplanes several years also deserve praise. Also good are the ‘late production’ Me262, Fw190 and Yak-3/9 these aircraft fill a desire to recreate a lost or missing part of history and for that reason alone they are good. The continued rebuilding of Spitfire, Hurricane and the more common USA fighters is down to a financial motivation which is not so good. Most of would agree that the monetary value of an unrestored Mk1 Spitfire with a genuine WW2 history (ie the one hanging in the IWM Lambeth) is far greater than yet another MkXIV rebuilt to fly.
On a different note WW1 aircraft should be treat with greater respect, I would doubt that any of the restored examples can be considered original as it is simply not possible to reuse their fabric covering. The Brussels air museum has several WW1 types in an unrestored state and they have an appeal all of there own. More ‘late production’ projects should be encouraged who would not like to see a Gloster Grebe or AW Whittly added to the collection at Hendon.

DOUGHNUT

RE: Mystery Vulcan

Am I correct in thinking that Halton does not have a ‘Hard’ runway ? If so how and when was the Vulcan delivered.

DOUGHNUT