Yep along with the 4.5, DS30Mk2 guns, Harpoon and the torpedo tubes I would think.

CAMM should be going into the T23’s before they end their lives shouldn’t they? They’ll go across too.

I wasn’t aware that the 4.5’s were going across, I thought they’d be wanting to get the 155’s in there. They should have finished development in time, trial firings were supposed to start this year.

Out of interest where are the torpedo tubes on the T23’s? Someone mentioned they were oddly placed on the model of the C1 above.

Not necessarily shot down…I think they were semi-expendable and had a demolition charge if 1960-era RPV control technology went wrong.

I’d read that the drone itself was supposed to be expended after use, with just the camera being released for retrieval.

Edit: Just read some more on these D21’s. Only 4 were properly used, one of which crashed largely intact in China after a spy mission, it was recovered by the Chinese and apparently handed to the Russians.

Could the E3 not shoulder some of the SAR responsibility, it has range and comms? or would that be c*ck?

Hmm, not sure. I have a feeling they’re trying to quietly run down E3 ops into effective mothballing. They’re not being used and won’t be for our current ops (even though they could help on piracy patrols) and they aren’t being upgraded so won’t be great for future high intensity conflicts where they might have been useful.

I know that, it will depend on final typhoon numbers on whether or not those former squadrons in those roles (as well as the F.3 squadrons) get lost in the shuffling, as it is, the ‘lost’ squadrons might still get re-roled with Typhoons (hopeless optimism obviously), I am fairly sure it will be a two jet type with the F-35….. the navy will buy them, and the RAF will not want to lose the deep strike capabilities that it offers, and arguably the Typhoon can only semi re-create.

Since that buy is on the other side of this recession by and large, agian it’s in a state of flux.

It will be interesting to see the outcome of the Taranis trials in the coming year, but any produciton variant will not come quickly enough to totally fulfill the GR.4 role in any case.

Like you I am hopeful that there will be available a UCAV strike force to complement the manned machines, but I still believe it will be a two airframe, rather than a single airframe RAF in the next ten years.

On the first part, sorry misunderstood your other post, my bad.

I should clarify, my remarks were solely on the RAF, I think the navy will get the F35 for sure and I hope they can creep up the numbers when the current crises are over from the 60 odd they might be able to get away with now. I think if it came down to it, it’d be better for the RAF (and the RAF would probably prefer) to stick to one type. That allows them to get more aircraft and spend a lot more in making it a top notch fighter. And given time and the money freed up a lot more could be done, especially adapting weapons as I mentioned earlier (you don;t need to be quite so stealthy if you can do the SEAD job at long range with a Meteor derivative).

I admit it can’t quite do everything the F35 can, but that niche where the Typhoon can’t go but the F35 can (stealth for SEAD in mind here) is where I think those UCAVs could come in. Keep in mind the GR4’s aren;t due out until 2024, that’s about 14 years to evolve and prove the Taranis design (hopefully up to a 2 engined design but on similar lines as the current Taranis).

If the worst comes to pass and the RAF don;t get them in time or require F35 type talents before then, they can always ask the navy to do it (shock horror I know) or, assuming the funding crisis is over, buy a stop gap purchase of F35’s that the navy can take later.

to be fair it was the RN that lost the sea harriers, and then only two squadrons of them, 899 was only ever an OCU, and in any case 800 and 801 did get some GR.9s:rolleyes:

as for the rest, it all depends on whether or not we get Tranche 3.B of the Typhoon as to how much of the Jags and F.3s were lost in the shuffle.

Urm, the Jags are all gone, have been for 2 years.

I think that they may as well start aiming for a 1 type fast jet fleet now as they begin to draw down the GR4’s next decade. To that end they should really go for tranche 3B (and many another batch after that later in the next decade to replace the T1’s and remaining GR4’s as they go) and focus on turning the Typhoon into the proper multirole jet that it could be. With one fast jet type they could really cut down on costs and focus all their efforts into getting it to cover all the A2A roles and A2G| roles the RAF needs it to with upgrades (AESA, CFT, TVC) and a new set of weapons (Apparently Meteor could make a decent SEAD weapon with proper modification).

(Keep in mind i’d like to see it complimented with a small force of high end, stealthy, long range UCAVs for SEAD/strike + a range of other UAV’s/UCAV’s, jet powered or otherwise for ISTAR/loitering bomb truck stuff etc that means that Typhoons need deploying less of the time).

6 astutes are already paid for (at least in part), and I do think boat 8 will get the go ahead (V class replacement isn’t going to be ready to cut steel before boat 8 would need to be laid down and the loss of skills would cost more in the long run, though this assumes a sensible government), 9 nimrods plus 3 pre-productions converted to R-1 replacements I could live with, especially with the advent of UAVs, Shadow, sentinal etc, but any lower than that is getting crazy.

I just hope we can negotiate for further C17s at favorable prices as they fight to keep the line going, especially with the A400M delays.

I doubt 8 Astutes will be bought, but the govt. is committed (and with very little possibility of backing out of 7). If 8 can be slotted in then it means the SSBNs are probably running late (not sure if the schedule has changed since the drop from 4 to 3 boats was announced). But if it could be slotted in it really would be good, not that they’d pay for it anyway. (It might mean bigger costs in the long run but since when did the govt. care about the future?).

They are saying on the news it’s to pay for 10 new Chinooks.

22 new Chinooks actually (+ 2 more to replace lost airframes), with the first 10 being delivered in 2012.

Some slightly better news: Only one fast jet squadron is actually being cut now (a Harrier squadron), whilst another squadron (Harrier or Tornado) won’t be decided until after the defence review. I hope it’s a Tornado squadron that goes to be honest, it’s the difference between losing a squadron of planes (that can in turn extend the life of the overall fleet as spares) and losing the entire capability of Carrier strike if we lose all the Harriers.

And from the sounds of it, only the Nimrod MR2’s are being retired, with the MRA4s simply being delayed by 12 months.