niksiIt seems that something similar has happened before:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aQXRGAiXnU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt147CGsPj0&feature=related
Looks like fans have used to it.:)
Somebody knows what happened with other guys? (I was lazy to read all those comments on youtube)
niksiEnviromental Security 😀 may be this new destroyer will be hybrid, using electricity with fuel 😀
Even Ferrari started playing with hybrids, so why wouldn’t the Russian Navy:D
Are there any renders of the ship? Or its still too early?
I just hope they don’t keep the damn thing in secrecy (a la PAK-FA) and first picture we are to see will be the one from the launching ceremony 😮 😀
niksiwhy a new thread, what’s wrong with the old one?
It exceeded the limit of 20 pages.
niksiFrench Horizon class frigate “Chevalier Paul” to visit Severomorsk March 30 to April 3.
Do they want to buy a Horizon now:D
Russia developing new generation destroyer.
On a more serious note, will it be a design from the Severnoye Design Bureau? (I can’t access the page in your link)
Perhaps something like this: http://spkb.air.spb.ru/en/offers/warships/21956/
Snake65, thanks for your reply.
One last question; is a replacement/upgrade being planed for the RIF-M and will the system find its place aboard new Russian destroyers?
niksidon’t tell that to some of our Serb friends here, they will be insulted if their air force took in some JF-17s. They want something big, new and bad to fight their non-existent air threats. 50 MiG-35’s to replace their what.. 5 MiG-29s they can barely handle? (thanks Teej for pointing this out).
landlocked countries like Serbia and even Austria don’t need something sophisticated. They simply need something that can chase out stray aircraft and quite frankly, a light fighter is good enough for their needs. be it JF-17, Tejas, or Gripen.
If you have read ink‘s post carefully you would understand that getting a high tech fast jet means retaining capability and know how that the Serbian Air Force may need in future (if Serbia opts to be neutral, which can easily occur in current circumstances). The MiG-35 comes as the logical choice at the moment (for all the reasons mentioned before in this thread).
Nobody said the Gripen was out. But as said before the NG will incorporate American engine and that may certainly become a liability if relations with the US get cold. Even if we are talking of the C/D, getting some advanced missiles could present another problem.
When speaking of the Tejas, we have to understand that the Mk1 is just getting inducted into the IAF (and that number will stop at 40 IIRC), and the top brass is not fully satisfied about it, while the Mk2, which is planned in higher numbers is still conducting tests. While it may be an interesting option about 2015 and later (assuming that the IAF will reserve all early slots in order to increase their squadron strength), it certainly isn’t one in the next two years. And if the Mk2 gets powered with an engine made by a certain General Electric, then the SrAF is getting into the very same problem it may have with the Gripen NG.
The JF-17 may seem as an attractive option and I’m not really much informed on its capabilities.
Serbia still has a decent number of usable airframes of G-4’s and J-22’s and with a modernization package these birds would get all the SrAF needs for its ground attack,CAS and even air policing duty. But still a true fighter jet couldn’t be replaced by already mentioned ground attack planes.
Basic problem with Fulcrums (there are 4 of them now – one has crashed in the meantime) isn’t the lack of money but rather its (proper) distribution.
Excuse me? And what he said to me was? Well look, I wasn’t starting a flamewar at all, I’ve got much better and serious things to worry about in my life and the least I want to do is start some sort of flamewar. Yes I’m aware of their history & I was just stating my opinion on the matter, I apologise if it seemed that way and if he was contributing something in the replied message to me, then well, doesn’t make him any better than me at contributing on that. Just my pennies worth, doesn’t bother me at all.
Sorry to but in, chaps.
EE, I don’t know what your original intention was but it certainly seemed as a bait. I hope you’re grown enough to understand why. DJ was very much offended as every Serb would be, so I understand his response (I’m aware it wasn’t nice at all), which came as an answer to a provocative post of yours.
Now when you have nicely cleared that up we can carry on with the thread.
Regards
niksiI don’t think that the idea of restarting the NA project is viable any more. It’s simply too late for that, plus the money factor would be a huge obstacle that both countries together wouldn’t be able to overtake. But as somebody said, if all that chaos hasn’t occurred in the Balkans during 90ies, and the project had been finalized, IMO the NA would have had a fair chance of succeeding on the market of the 3rd world and independent countries.
Speaking of the current situation of getting a new plane for the SrAF, well, this gets as a surprise to me (if they are being serious this time). The MoD has been talking of the purchase for a couple of years but nothing concrete ever happened. The lack of money and negligence of politicians have always hampered plans of the SrAF.
The modernization of 4 Fulcrums (one of them was an UB) was undertaken in secrecy (as most details were never revealed) and a great deal of money was paid to refurbish and insignificantly modernize those birds. For something in a range of $21-28 mil.(contradictory reports were issued on the cost of modernization). For that amount of money I would expect them to be brought to the SMT standard (but they are far cry from it). One of those MiG’s crashed during a preparation for an airshow killing one of the most experience pilots in the air force. The fifth Fulcrum was slated to be modernized later (but we haven’t heard anything happening in regard to this yet).
Back to the topic, I fully agree with GrM and his assessment of the MiG-35 having the highest chances in this contest. So, if the current geopolitical climate remains unchanged and the SrAF and MoD continue with this process seriously, the MiG may continue cooperation with its (now) small and modest but loyal customer.
To be honest , best choice would be to rent few MiG and wait till PAK-FA is available and if politics and price is right go with such option .If you are spending money on something that you will use for next 30 40 years , and you can not afford more then 10 – 12 airframes it would be better to wait for next 10 years , work on improving economy and buy some serious piece of aircraft that will add significant fire power and capability.
Beside all this PR talk of Pogo guy about PAK-FA being exported out of Russia and India I really don’t see that happening (at least not before 2025). And Serbia doesn’t seem like the promising customer for this bird (not speaking here of loyalty but rather about proximity of NATO countries and bases).
Meh…Who cares, give’em a bunch of crappy old F-16’s or F-5’s…they can buy them in ModelZone here in the UK for about £12.99…Only down side you gotta build them yourself. 😀 Thats all they deserve anyway IMO.
That was not nice of you at all. DJ was contributing while your post can just serve to start a flaimewar. I can assume why you’re saying so and I could also assume that you are not aware of history of the Balkans and that most of what you have heard comes from the mainstream media. And if I would tell you, a couple of certain NATO countries, what we think you deserve (not the population but the leadership) then we would have one nasty discussion.
Well thats all Serbia was missing from dominating the Balkans…an air force 🙂
I assume he was thinking of the pre 1991 period 😉
Now that thats been cleared up…we can move on.
Music for your ears. To move on, but which way first: Eastern Montenegro, Southern Serbia, FYROM or Northern Greece:diablo:
niksiRedut-K (9M96 missile) instead of Kortik . No Poliment radar, target acquisition by Furke. 9M96 has AR terminal.
Where do they plan to fit it in? Behind the main gun?
So, if the Kortik gets removed and 9M96 missiles take its place, is there space for any other CIVS to be installed? Or those AK-630 fitted on the port and starboard sides are assumed to be sufficient for anti-missile defense?
I was always wondering why the Steregushchiy wasn’t appropriately armed for its air defense role. Especially as the Russians started marketing this ship and most of potential export buyers would buy it as their premium ship, thus requiring it to be fairly armed for most aspects of warfare (as multirole as it may be), baring in mind they won’t be able to afford more potent Gorshkov class frigates or a new Russian destroyer.
If this goes thru (9M96 missiles being installed) it would radically increase ships AAW capability.
BTW, Snake65, any info on the Hurricane (Uragan) development and characteristics? Is it still supposed to be fitted on the Gorshkov or something else will take its place?
niksiYou want me to provide a link proving the Serbs were unable to shoot down more than one F-117???
Even if they do have some “special device” that allowed them to shoot down the F-117 (assuming of course it WAS shot down) how do you account for the fact that it could not manage this feat again?
On top of which only one other aircraft was shot down. An F-16. Hardly the pinnacle of LO technology…
So for all the SAM systems employed in Yugoslavia, they managed to destroy precisely 2 NATO aircraft.
Jump for joy boys, what a result…
:rolleyes:
Good Lord, first of all I don’t even remember asking you anything but you jumped into discussion and started with genitalia mesuring contest. I briefly tried to answer you but you still remain at the same point. Good luck in the hunt old boy…
… and yes, the Martians downed it. It wasn’t the Serbs…
Hope this helps with your case:D
niksiHow do they plan to do that? They’ll need to be refueled several times in-flight to get there. At best, that would be more than 12,000km long flight (in case they take off from California).
@ Edge
thanks for your reply.
niksithe gun is removed and a different wirering loom fitted when built, other than that its basically the same
boeing australia will probably do the fitting
F-18G Hornets also give up their wing-tip AAMs.
F also has a tad less range
Well, I’m aware that the wingtips will be occupied by the ALQ-218 wideband receivers and that both high and low band ALQ-99 jammer pods are being carried on external stores. Also, there are a couple of antennas visible on the dorsal spin plus those toys fitted instead of the gun.
Is there anything else “hidden” inside?
For what weapons the G version is wired? (Almost all photos I’ve seen have shown EA-18G armed with a couple of HARM’s and 2 AMRAAM’s aswell)
niksiA Growler question
Pardon my ignorance but I have to ask this
When an F is being converted to the G what’s being “taken away” (components and capability wise) from the F? I know that all electronic toys are being added then but I’m more interested what combat capabilities of the “standard” E/F series are being retained.
When the time comes, will the Aussies be able to convert those Super Hornets in-house or they’ll have to be flown back to the States in order to get their Growler “license”?
niksiIf Bulgaria acquires this, Greek and Turkish air superiority will be seriously challenged.
You seem to have strong fixation with this Balkans triangle. The Bulgarians will have to wait for some time to be able to buy a new a/c and when that time comes I doubt it will be the PAK-FA. Their economy (like of many Balkan countries) was never looking that shiny and especially doesn’t look so in this chaos. Other than that, they are a very trusty ally of the US and if I’m not mistaken a growing “base” of US armed forces.
IMHO that kind of purchase (PAK-FA for any NATO country) won’t happen unless there are some serious changes within the NATO itself.
niksiBut what if they attack Sunday morning, when all four are outdoor for washing and polishing? 🙂
OK I admit failure, here is another one:
A surprise attacks with fighters; this triggers the Typhoons to get airborn to meet the threat.
Unknown to the Brits, those sneaky Argies have equipped several civilian ships (fishing boats, cargo ships, cruise ships and whatnot) with some nasty russian SAMs; the 4 Typhoons who think they will wipe the floor with the Argentinian fighters are instead lured into a trap, and shot down.
I leave it as an exercise to the reader to finalize this scenario :diablo:
Loke, don’t you understand… you can even throw 60 Su-35’s at them but those 4 Typhoons (of the flight 1435) are simply indestructible :diablo:
niksiI am afraid you are speaking from the Greek perspective, yet the neighbors often hold something else. You may not remember of the Devteros Valkanikos Polemos but yet in Bulgaria they often teach that everyday and such sentiments remain.
What the Second Balkan War has to do with this? Almost 100 years have passed since then…
niksiAre you asking for that Il-76T or the “object” under its wing:confused:
To me, it looks like its engine that has been removed (as dj said).
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