I don’t know if somebody has mentioned this before:

but wouldn’t a CVBG be followed (tracked via satellite or shadowed by an SSN) from the very beginning (home port exit) in the period of high tensions (a near certainty of war)?

the difference is modern computer controlled manufacturing is supposed to cut down on the number of test launches needed. Something is seriously wrong if they need to do the same number of test launches today as they did in the 1970’s.

Take into consideration that they are creating something much more sophisticated than ever before.

Do you have details about the Russian airlift from Tokol to Egypt in 1970?
No longer a secret, so the former personal can give some details about that.

Pardon my ignorance, but what was airlifted from Tokol to Egypt in 1970?

Thanks, I`m looking forward to visit this one. Hopefully, Migs will fly that day. Is there somewhere an article about Serbian Migs-29 describing installed and uninstalled devices(comms, navs, iff, gps,…) during the overhaul&modernization program they underwent in Batajnica? Thanks

AFAIK the modernization process undertaken on those Fulcrums was minimal (IFF and coms were changed and I am not sure what else) and all that came with ludicrous price (close to 30 mil $ IIRC). Only 4 were overhauled and modernized (out of 5 remaining) as the government decided that the tax had to be paid for this process.

I hope that ink will have to say something more on this as my sources have died with my old hard drive.

Extremely turbulent “love story” of Arthuro and Jacko has taken its first casualty 🙁

Jack, you are smart enough and try to keep Typhoon out of this thread, whatever bad our dear Frenchies say for it.

Guys, please. This is a very nice thread which is dedicated to the most beautiful fighter plane on the Earth. Try with PM’s, it’s much easier.

The details aside. The task of such a Brigade 250 was to fend-off such air attacks and to prevent a military defeat by that. It was unable to do so for many reasons. To bring down a F-117A was a technical achievement and the man involved were honored about that. But in reality they were never able to fulfill their given task. Most time they were on a constant “run” to avoid physical destruction. At least they did survive the no win situation and may have learned not be forced into such war again. 😉

Very nicely put Sens 😉

Open sourced data confirms the number of missile firings and the results they achieved.

It is not rubbish, the Colonel most certainly DID get lucky, and it was quite clear they were NOT able to replicate the performance of their so-called “special device”.

Theories are all well and good but they ARE rubbish if the observations do not match the predictions. No further F-117’s were shot down by the Serbs, nor anyone else and thus the theory is no good, brother…

Sorry if that upsets you. 🙂

Not at all Jason. The only thing I want of you is to provide the source for what you’ve said. Or I am asking too much?

It’s likely something optical. There are a whole mess of optical systems you can get as “after-market” accessories for your Russian-made SAM systems. I’m pretty sure that the only major SAM systems to not have some sort of optics available are the S-300P/V, S-400, and S-200. For obvious reasons.

Barring optics, my guess’d be something off the wall like an IFF interrogator reading NATO modes and codes. The F-117 didn’t fly around squawking, I don’t think, but some sort of communication intercept system or whatever may have been a possibility.

Thanks.

Yeah, and Yugoslavia claimed to have shot down hundreds of jets, a B-2, and all sorts of stuff. Pull the other one.

I am very well aware of those claims, as all of the people in Yugoslavia believe that those stories were BS, it was just a PR talk, nothing more.

All I said was that Col Dani claimed that they had engaged a few more targets (including another F-117A but not downing it) during the conflict.

@Swerve

I am not explicitly stating that the “spy work” has brought down the F-117 back in 1999. I was just assuming that it could have been part of the puzzle like it was in some other situations (like the map and codebook stolen from an Apache cockpit on the Petrovec Air Field in FYROM).

BTW, I agree with the most of what you wrote and I like to keep it simple as much as possible but that situation still remains ambiguous to some extent.

Here’s an excerpt from an interview with Colonel Zoltan Dani:

On je pretpostavljao da bi ono što je te noći video na ekranu radara mogao biti nevidljivi, ali nije bio sto odsto siguran.Do tog dana njegov divizion bio je u režimu ćutanja.To znači da su bili istureni ispred svih diviziona, prema zapadnoj, hrvatskoj granici, a onda su dobili naređenje da se pripreme.Oko 18 sati, uočili su neispravnost na jednom osmatračkom radaru i kvar su ubrzo otklonili.Izvestili su pretpostavljenu komadnu da su spremni za izvršavanje zadataka i da su u borbenoj gotovosti.”Rekli su nam da sačekamo, da još nije vreme, a onda, oko 20 sati došlo je naređenje da uključimo sredstva.U tom momentu se na ekranu osmatračkog radara nisu pojavili nikakvi ciljevi.Rekao sam mom operateru da još jednom proveri da li je sve u redu.Onda sam odlučio da uključimo našu inovaciju, koju smo napravili bez odobrenja pretpostavljene komande.To je bila moja ideja, da lakše otkrivamo avione stelt tehnologije.Na tu ideju sam došao još 1996/97. godine, razgovarali smo o njoj na savetovanjima raketaša, ali to se nije uzimalo za ozbiljno jer je rešenje bilo vrlo jednostavno.Niko nije smatrao da to jednostavno rešenje može dati tako dobre rezultate, smatrano je kao neozbiljno, posebno u visokim vojnim krugovima.Za njih je to bila obična smejurija”, priča Dani.

Source: http://www.mojheroj.com/heroj.aspx?h=53

I’ll try to translate (roughly):

He was assuming that what he could see on the radar screen that night would be an invisible jet (as the F-117 was called in Yugoslavia) but he wasn’t 100% sure in that. Till that day his division was on the “silent mode”. That means that they were in advanced position regarding all other divisions, facing the western, Croatian border, and then they got an order to prepare. Around 18h they have noticed an error on one of their search radars which they quickly repaired. They have reported to their superior command that they were prepared for accomplishing their tasks and ready to engage. “We have been told to wait, it wasn’t right time, and then, about 20h we have been commanded to turn on our systems. At that very moment on the screen of the search radar there were no any targets. I said to my operator to double check if everything was functioning properly. Then I decided to turn on our innovation, which we have created without authorization of our command. That was my idea, for easier detection of stealthy planes. I came to that idea back in 1996/97, we were discussing about it on Air Defense symposiums, but nobody took it seriously as the solution was very simple. Nobody believed that such a simple solution could produce so good results, therefore it was considered as flippant among the highest ranking officers. For them it was simple scream” says Dani.

About that innovation he wrote in his report which was highly classified. After the regime in Belgrade changed and NATO officers were brought as advisers they coulnd’t wait to put their hands on his report.

Anybody has any idea what this simple innovation could be?

The F117 that got hit, wasn’t the only one shot upon…

Colonel Dani claims the same thing.

External pod, provides emitter location/classification data for Kh-58 and Kh-31 ARMs. They are two diferent pods(A and B) cover different bands. There may be a third pod designated Fantasmagoria-C. Here you can find more information:
http://aerospace.boopidoo.com/philez/Su-15TM%20PICTURES%20&%20DOCS/Overscan’s%20guide%20to%20Russian%20Military%20Avionics.htm
UPAZ is refuelling pod.More for Su-24 here:http://www.scramble.nl/wiki/index.php?title=Sukhoi_Su-24

Thank you very much stambe_mig.