Get_ItThat’s interesting, do you have any more info on that AW.109 show-off at Montijo? Any copy of that article?
Regards,
TiggerII
It was posted by Charlie Jaguar over at ForumDefesa. You can see the AFM’s “box”/article on imageshack.
EDIT: Charlie Jaguar also contacted one of the authors of the article, who confirmed that “it was a commercial demonstration offered by Agusta Westland.” (also posted on the first link above)
Best regards,
Get_ItI don’t see how it would make any sense pooling fighters with Brazil. In addition to what Sintra wrote, there’s a large geographical distance between both countries so there wouldn’t be any maintenance or fleet sharing advantages. Portugal is a NATO member, which requires more specific technology to work side-by-side with other NATO nations, while Brazil doesn’t. Portugal also participates in international NATO/EU missions with its fighters than Brazil, so it would take a bigger toll on the fleet. Both countries also have different requirements when it comes to their fighter needs.
F50, yes for day to day OP. Then buy something pointy & cheap, even with low hours left, for NATO/QRA duties.
Portugal can’t afford two types of fighters. It won’t even be able to afford to purchase and operate three training and combat types like we have now: Epsilon, Alpha Jet, and F-16. It would make more sense to buy second-hand Gripen to do all the work and simply not purchase the Golden Eagle.
What’s the point of hving 200 employee on low qualified jobs when you can be the tip of Embraer iceberg in Eu?
Portugal already has a lot of high qualification jobs. Companies like OGMA, Critical, and EMPORDEF’s subsidiaries have a lot of jobs doing subcontract work for Airbus and Embraer projects. Just like BAE and other American companies have been awarded subcontract on the C-390 program.
Besides, there’s no need to buy the C-390 to support it in Europe. If Brazil buys the Rafale France will buy the C-390. OGMA is largely owned by Embraer and already has the know-how and certifications to do maintenance work on a lot of their aircraft systems, so Embraer already wins if OGMA does maintenance in Europe for the C-390. Also, any European country buying the C-390 might require some share of the work or the maintenance to be done in-country.
Best regards,
Get_ItROK T-50 mix could be an option to replace both Alpha Jets and F-16.
Many months ago South Korea was (past tense) interested and even in talks with Portugal to establish a flight training center in Beja. This is the only way that I could see the PoAF getting the Golden Eagle to replace the Alpha Jet and then eventually the F-16. More or less the same way that PoAF got the Alpha Jet from the Luftwaffe. Without something like this to push such a deal, because of what Sintra wrote and because the Alpha Jet is no longer an important asset, it’s very unlikely for us to see both the Alpha Jet and F-16 replaced by the T-50.
Nevertheless, if the PoAF were to replace the F-16 with a new type, a single-engine fighter like a F-50 Golden Eagle, backed by Lockheed Martin, would be a good candidate.
Best regards,
Get_ItThere was some news on Air Forces Monthly of August 2013 about AgustaWestland showing a AW109 in Montijo to pilots and officers of the PoAF. But that’s probably all that was; a promotional opportunity by AW.
It’s not unrealistic to see the Alouette III being replaced past 2015. Especially since only a small number of helicopters would be required. However, in regards to the Epsilon and Alpha Jet, I think that’s more difficult to be sure.
The Epsilon can still soldier on for a long time and any lobbyist group could also very well push for the Super Tucano to replace it in the future. This would mean that there would no longer be an option to go with the PC-21 to replace both the Epsilon and Alpha Jet.
Meanwhile the Alpha Jet needs to be replaced sooner and could very well end up not be replaced at all. In the most recent years the PoAF has been outsourcing flight training to other countries, this includes cadets being sent to Brazil to do their basic flight training. Then there’s also the Canadian option and any other NATO or European joint schools that might be created in the future.
I personally wouldn’t be surprised if the PoAF was forced to completely outsource its training to other countries or even private companies. When the time comes this decisions will depend on a lot of variables, so it’s impossible to know for sure. Also remember that the final decision won’t be up to the pilots, squadron commanders or even the higher ups, but to politicians.
Best regards,
Get_ItI have to agree. There is little of anything new that will come down the road for the FAP. Sorry to say… They may even give up fast-jet capability when the F-16’s are no longer airworthy. On the opposite side of that, there may be surplus USAF F-16C/D’s available when the F-35 enters service in large numbers. However, these F-16’s would be old from the start of acquisition.
Indeed. Most likely the PoAF will be last small/medium air forces to remove it from service. It could even be the last F-16 operator if we exclude recent or any future countries that come to operate it.
As for replacing it, the option to give up fighters all together is very real given the population’s and politician’s lack of interest and awareness in military matters. Of course the opportunity to make some money from accepting bribes will also be a great incentive for politic party in power to actually purchase new fighters down the road.
In the regard of the C-130 replacement there will be a lot of options when the time comes: second-hand British C-130 and A-400M being offloaded by Spain and Germany are just a few. The KC-390 is still not a given; its components are mainly produced by another subsidiary company owned by Embraer. Meanwhile OGMA is still owned in a small part by the government.
In the end it will depend on who gives the best bribes to our politicians. Will it be Airbus, Lockheed Martin or Embraer? Then there’s also the matter of where anyone involved in the acquisition program will want to work after leaving office or retiring from the military.
Best regards,
Get_ItIts a maritime patrol aircraft, for anti-sub, search&rescue, and so on… hardly what any rational person would describe as a “spy plane”!
I noticed that too, but it’s probably because of its ELINT capabilities and for the P-3 being well known to be used for spying on China.
Best regards,
Get_ItJust last month I read a news article about that. I’ll have to try and hunt it down since a quick online search didn’t help. From what I understood at the time it wasn’t RAF that would be acquiring the Texan II but the company/consortium that wins (won?) the training contract.
EDIT: Never mind, the article that I saw was about the Royal Australian Air Force: Teams Form for Australia Trainer Contest. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Best regards,
Get_ItOr have the portugese mothballed these f16s sometime in 2000s? That would explain how come they flew just 3500 hours so far, after 7-10 years of usaf service and 7-10 more years in portugese service.
PoAF’s second F-16 squadron, 301 Squadron, only started flying the F-16 in 2005. Some of those F-16s were kept in storage since being received from the USA until the MLU program started. How many flight hours the F-16s being bought by Romania have depends on which individual aircraft they are getting. Add to that the aircraft that are still to be bought from the USAF and receive upgrades.
Best regards,
Get_ItSo why arent the skies filled with 609s? That prototype has been around for ages now, yet sales havent been forthcoming. Is there something terribly wrong about it that we havent been told?
Civilian certification takes time for a monster like this. In fact, it seems that they only started the certification process in 2012. From Wikipedia (with sources!):
According to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), the AW609 is to be certified in compliance with both helicopter and fixed-wing aircraft rules; additionally, new codes will cover the transition phase between the two modes. In January 2013, the FAA defined US tiltrotor noise rules to comply with ICAO rules, expecting the AW609 to be available within 10 years.
Ouch. This article says that AW expects to obtain type certification in 2016. I guess that Bell leaving the program hurt it a little and it also doesn’t seem like a big priority for AW.
We are also to see if with the current economy it is actually going to be able to compete against VIP helicopters and jets given its operational costs.
Also, Bell is pushing on this competition, against Sikorsky’s Raider, its own V-280 tilt-rotor. Shouldn’t that be the focus of this discussion instead of the AW609?
Best regards,
Get_ItGuys, and ladies, don’t laugh at me now, but here’s what I got. As you can see I was very generous with both the Air Force’s budget and Iran’s foreign relations.
60x Sukhoi Su-35
~130 Dassault Rafale
~100 General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcon
38-45 Yakovlev Yak-130 (both for training and light attack/CAS)
~50 Pilatus PC-9M/PC-21
25 Lockheed Martin C-130J Super Hercules
As you can I didn’t go with any Chinese fighters or trainers since there’s a lot of other Chinese equipment that can be bought to keep them happy. A lot of F-16 (downgraded for sure) just to keep US politicians and lobbyists happy, basically it’s a bribe. The Su-35 could serve primarily as a air superiority fighter with the Rafale as a true multi-role/omni-role filling all other missions alongside the F-16.
Best regards,
Get_ItI don’t think that level of dominance exists now…If the F-35 turns out to be crap, or if the costs are not controlled, alternatives that are available are there and ready in all shapes and sizes..
Yes, but if the F-35 turns out to be crap it will be too late for a lot of countries. They would have to pay penalties to cancel their orders and, in some cases, would lose billions in money already invested in development and paying for the right to compete for F-35 subcontracts. If it turns out be crap it won’t turn out be another Starfighter thanks to its integrated systems, as it will end up being more of an expensive F-16.
Best regards,
Get_ItTextron knows this full well! Yet there is a prototype so they clearly want to do something with it, there is pretty much no chance we shall ever see this aircraft being purchased by the US in this role so the question is “what is Textron’s game here”?
I wonder is this a sideways step at T-X?
One of my first thoughts was in that regard. Could this be also used for advanced training? Maybe this project is itself the result of an attempt to compete on the T-X contract but weren’t able to get a better partner?
Anyway, it will be interesting to see how it develops. As you wrote, Textron must be expecting something to even spend money on something like this.
It would actually have been more interesting to see them partner with AeroSud to offer a more advanced AHRLAC. That could probably compete better against the Super Tucano and AT-6, or at least in the same category.
Best regards,
Get_ItAll four flying prototypes of the T-50 were planned to perform a diamond formation flight for the opening day of the show, however no more than three of the aircraft could be made flight worthy in time for the opening by Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev on 27 August.
NATO should invade immediately while the Russians are with their pants down.
Best regards,
Get_ItDue to politics (mainly Canadian politicians and US lobbying) it’s impossible for Canada to not buy F-35. I think that it would be more realist to say that Canada gets invaded by the US before it ditches the F-35…
Anyway, the Super Hornet makes more sense because of the already existing infrastructure but the Typhoon or even the Rafale would also be good choices.
BTW, here’s a blog that I found out sometime ago about the Canadian fighter procurement: http://bestfighter4canada.blogspot.ca
Originally the author of the blog had a blog in favor of the Gripen due mainly to its costs.
Best regards,
Get_ItDisadvantages:
1. High priced fighter with capability limitations when compared to the F-35s of the other nations (USA won’t export high value technology to India)
2. Limitations in the field operations of the F-35 (comes with strings attached)
3. No transfer of technology
4. More prone to embargoes
5. Reduction of jobs due to the cancellation of Tejas (even with local F-35 assembly/production)
6. Destruction of the aerospace industry’s capacity to design aircraft
7. Eventual cancellation of AMCA and Pak Fa due to US pressure
Best regards,
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