It is an interesting question the way it is worded. If an airplane stalls sooner (at a faster airspeed) with more than a 1 G load factor, will it stall at a lower speed if less than 1 G?

I don’t think so, but if there is a difference between 1 G and less than one G it will be infinitesimal and I can’t visualize the circumstance of being in that realm of flight for any length of time to matter.

I am interested in listening to other thoughts.

This is an example of a stall occurring with sufficient airspeed (for anything less than roughly thirty degrees) but excessive load factor due to high bank. To recover from this, simply rolling out was his only option. An 80 degree bank will be giving you well over 5 Gs of load factor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6IuJY4qkiY

OK.
I think D-D would agree that you would be very hard pushed to get a Dak. to give more than about 20 deg/sec at a speed commensurate with the pitch-up required, safely to remain inside limits,and the forces on the controls.

If you read my posts from the beginning you will see I am on the fence with this, particularly because of the anemic roll rate as I mentioned .

I would just like to know his procedure.

Not to add to skepticism but here goes. I have many hours in a Convair 580. This aircraft is a very heavy aircraft to fly with I would venture 50-75 pounds of pressure required to move the controls in flight. (I’m not talking Convair 440 now). The roll rate is also slow but not near the DC-3. I personally know that this aircraft can complete an awesome barrel roll and will not spill one drop of blue water from the open honey pot or disturb the pop cans in the galley racks. I had an awesome instructor that demonstrated genuine unusual attitudes during training and check rides.

I may sometimes have/show doubts, but just tell me how you did it Captain.

That is a whole new ball game when you dip your toe into high speed (subsonic or supersonic) aerodynamics. They are apples and oranges. Happy reading.

So referring back to page one, it’s appearing to me that there are no other available photos or videos of this maneuver. I would still greatly appreciate it if the PIC would contact me though. I simply would like to know the specifics (power settings, entry speed, initial pitch attitude, rudder input etc).

You don’t even have to read the post. Just watch the two links.

I believe in his interview he meant he pulls up in a climbing turn as if in a Chandelle entry then continues to roll. The film depicts a roll in a corkscrew pattern. It was not a Chandelle.

Then he does a 180 degree turn and repeats the maneuver.

I suppose that is one of those topics in aviation that falls into the KISS method of instructing.

A student pilot has a multitude of new experiences to jump into at once with a very limited amount of positive transfer from other life experiences to help him learn stating the very first lesson when he starts to taxi with his feet and use independent wheel brakes. The aerodynamic subject matter would be more correct if stated the molecules of air nearly join instead of actually meet at the trailing edge of the airfoil. Other than the aerodynamics of turning, climbing and descending (forces of lift weight thrust and drag), that’s about the depth that’s covered in recreational, private and commercial pilot flight training.

Thanks for the link.

“I’m going to have to lie on this symetrical aerofoil business.
An increased wing incidence increases lift, but I don’t see how it generates it.”

The simplest method to describe how lift works and the previously mentioned Bernoulli’s principal is to watch lift film I earlier provided.

Bernoulli’s Principle can be used to calculate the lift force on an airfoil if you know the behavior of the “fluid” flow in the vicinity of the airfoil. Hence, if the air flowing past the top surface of an aircraft wing is moving faster than the air flowing past the bottom surface then Bernoulli’s principle implies that the pressure on the surfaces of the wing will be lower above than below.

Page says “an increased wing incidence increases lift, but I don’t see how it generates it.” Yet he understands the concept of camber of the upper surface decreasing the air pressure over the upper surface. In simple terms, why is the air pressure lower on the upper surface? It’s because the air molecules are split at the leading edge and have to travel over the cambered upper wing surface (faster) to again join up at the trailing edge. Due to BP, the pressure is then lowered and the airfoil is held up but the higher pressure on the lower surface.

Watch again the first eight minutes of this link specifically 4:00 to 6:00. At 5:44 there is an animation with a symmetrical airfoil in a wind tunnel. With even the slightest increase of angle of attach the airflow has a greater distance to travel over the upper surface.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LXW3pHNn_U&list=PLA4230CFC315BA3AA&index=1&playnext=2

To be clearer, look at this link with actual smoke lines in a wind tunnel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGUSmdFmXDg&playnext=1&list=PLA4230CFC315BA3AA&index=9

Notice that the airflow actually curves under the leading edge with the resultant flow actual being cambered in appearance.

Symmetrical airfoils are actually common in many light general aviation aircraft. Look at most horizontal stabilizers or stabilators at the rear of the (conventional) aircraft. These “wings” also produce lift and contrary to inaccurate opinion, they don’t “deflect” air to alter the pitch of an aircraft. They provide lift on both the upper and lower surface to provide an upward and downward force.

So how does an aircraft with a cambered airfoil fly upside down for a long period of time with the flat surface on top? The answer is the same, angle of attack. With a high angle of attack, the air will flow over the large leading edge from slightly underneath and over the flat surface.

Beermat, The instruments that will “tumble” as it’s called in a DC-3 or any light general aviation aircraft are any mechanical gyroscopic instruments. These are your attitude indicator (A/I), directional heading indicator (DG or HSI), turn and bank (T/B if still installed) and the turn coordinator (T/C). The gyros on these “cheap” instruments are not mechanically built to accommodate 360 degree of rotation. They have mechanical stops. When a 22,000 RPM gyro hits the stop it can have a violent reaction and possibly damage the instrument. More expensive corporate, military and airline instrumentation have 360 degree capability.

If it has an angle of attack relative to the airstream it produces lift, that is the principle.

You are correct.