nice place for a swim

“Took that as read…
But is this the one where you battle the things from the underworld as other beasties try to steal your power and a small italian man jumps about grabbing power-ups whilst dodging falling blocks as a dinosaur zips past on a go-kart?

Flood.”

Almost…Thats one of the many cool things about CS is that there are always new maps you download off the server that are absolutely hilarious. For example there is one called “rats” where your fighting as though your minature in a giant size kitchen. You can take vantage points on top of the fridge, or run through all the rat holes in the shelves. My favorite is turning on the garbage disposel when someone is swimming in the sink.

You have to understand, this is an old game, but despite the low poly graphics, the quality of animation and realistic shooting effects are exellent and make this the absolute ultimate multiplayer shooter. The best players I see know how to use the sniper rifle very well, even in close quarters. And it really takes very good reflexes to shoot fast and accurately. Spray and pray doesnt work in this game. To be honest it takes skill to score high in this game, there are no tricks to exploit.

“And I dont see how you can set all the weapon choices just using the “last weapon” button since that is set during the game.”

“im not sure i know what u mean by that.”

plawolf- Your sort of answered my question by explaining that the mouse wheel can toggle through a large number of previous weapons and not just one. Thanks, that helps alot. Maybe now I can start putting people down on the AWP range.

I play under the name “hangfire” on gamespy usually on the AWP or IceWorld maps if any one here wants to get shot.

The raygun which you refer is one of the many stupid add ons to this game, as well as all of the other undead or cheating death add ons.

plawolf- So how do you configure the “last weapon” and “next weapon” to go directly to high magnification, since high magnification requires 2 clicks of the “alternate weapon” button? And I dont see how you can set all the weapon choices just using the “last weapon” button since that is set during the game.

I got some CS questions since were on the subject. How do guys change weapons so fast when there using the sniper rifle? They keep telling me they use the q key, but that only toggles between two weapons. Also what is a good site to download all the custom maps so I dont have to download off the server when in a game? Also is there a special way to get the microphone working besides the game configuration? I can never get it to work. CS is awesome, if anyone plays it on gamespy, Ill be glad to go against you.

I want to comment on the T-50 and M-346.

The M-346 is basically a modern version of the Alpha Jet concept in that it incorperates a supersonic wing section, but does not have afterburner. Modern due to the fact that it has FBW, LERX and larger tailplanes to take advantage of the aforementioned features. I never thought that the Alpha Jet made much of a primary trainer and was more an advanced trainer. I think the M-346 is almost entirely an advanced trainer.

The T-50 is so much a modern fighter, I dont see how it can be thought of as a trainer. Compare the T-50 to the Gripen, and whats the difference? Of course the Gripen has greater systems capability, but for the engine and airframe, these jets are identical. Would an airforce that operates Gripens really buy T-50s as advanced trainers?

“You still have to show us how the aspect ratio effects turn performance.”

I already have, but you have ignored what Ive said and gone off on this tangent about how wings arent needed to turn a aircraft.

“You still have to show us how camber and chord is related to aspect ratio.”

Wings with short chord and thick camber have a better L/D than those that do not. On average, wings that have short chord usually have high aspect ratio. I just mentioned this as a side fact to try and break up the rediculas course this conversation has taken.

“So you are taking about AoA and not turn? Gliders are able to glide at Low speed and high angles of attack due to their airfoil sections which are different from powered planes.”

OK then, why are sailplane airfoils more efficient then? Its because they have shorter chord and high aspect ratio. Can you tell me why sailplanes use high aspect ration wings if they make no difference to their glide?

“Nonsense! Turn radius is not a function of L/D ratio. Turn radius is a function of angle of bank and velocity. An aircraft at a lower velocity will have a faster turn ITR/STR than an aircraft at a higher velocity keeping the angle of bank the same. Wing aspect ratio has absolutely nothing to do with turn radius and ITR/STR. “

The nonsense is yours. The L/D ratio doesnt stop becoming a factor in the turn, the only difference is the tail surface is setting it at an opposite AOA, so these two flying surfaces work together to change the direction of the plane.

“Lift does not figure in turn radius and ITR/STR calculations at all. When an aircraft is banked its wings are generating very little lift therfore for practical purposes all they generate is drag at this time. “

Ha Ha, I cant help myself, you make me laugh, wings only create drag in a turn. Did you even graduate from preschool?

“The only part of the wing which has any effect on the aircraft during this time are the ailerons which induce and sustain the turn by generating opposing drag forces on wing extremities to maintain turn angle. The nose is pitched up rudder is applied to prevent a nose dive due to loss of lift and prevent side slip.”

Thanks, thats good to know that its only the ailerons that affect an aircraft in a turn. Maybe we should make planes that constantly turn so we wont need wings at all.

“What do you mean by “AoA attitude”? AoA relates to pitch, attitude relates to turn angle. During turn, the rules of level flight AoA and L/D do not apply. The only physical forces acting on the aircraft are velocity, momentum, mass and drag. There is no lift as such, and normal rules of AoA & L/D ratio as applicable to level flight are discarded for turn calculations. Therefore only bank angle, velocity and the designed g limit matter for the duration of the turn.”

Again Im glad there is no lift involved in a turn, its all a matter of ballistics. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

“Now you are talking about velocity not angle of AoA. Don’t bring in different issues. Maybe you should be the one to talk to a pilot at your local airport. Mention to him/her that wing aspect effects turn radius and you will be gently corrected. Wing aspect effects L/D, coefficient of L/D, and range & endurance. It does not in any way effect turn radius.”

yeah yeah you said that before, a plane is just a moving mass in a turn. *yawn*

“You are mistaken – an aircraft cannot be at stall speed and in danger of overspeeding at the same time. Stall speed is defined by the lift characteristics of the wing. Overspeed is when the aircraft is flying beyond designed V-max. Stall speed is when the aircraft falls. Overspeed will automatically induce lift so there is no question of a stall. Stall speed and overspeed are two events which are mutually exclusive. They cannot occur at the same time. A HAWK in level flight will generate greater lift at any altitude than a pure fighter in level flight at the same altitude and speed simply because their wings sections are different. The HAWKS wing section is designed to generate greater lift. (see below for full explanation).”

When I said stall and overspeed, I was just mentioning two things that will happen if the Hawk tries aerobatic maneuver at high altitude. I did not mean to say they happen at the same time.

“=>Primary jet trainers like the Hawk, L-159 and Mig-AT are in an entirely different class that the supersonic advanced trainers like the T-50.

Yes they are, because their wing sections are designed that way. I’ll bet you anything a HAWK has a symetrical wing section optimised for subsonic flight, and the supersonic trainer has a wing section optimised for supersonic flight.”

The Hawk does not have a symetrical airfoil, it has an aesymetrical airfoil. Its supersonic fighters that use symetrical airfoils.

” Stall speed is a function of airfoil section and velocity. Simply having a higher wing aspect will not make for a lower stall speed. “

Ha Ha Ha, airfoil section and velocity. Im not even going to bother correcting you, your just getting rediculas here.

“For instance a high aspect supercritical wing (which is designed with a more flattened top surface and low camber) will have lower lift than a low aspect symetrical wing (which is designed with a more rounded top surface and high camber).”

Thats a pile of bunk. A symetrical airfoil creates horribly low amount of lift as is only used in aerobatic planes to improve their inverted flight or supersonic fighter to decrease drag. You really have no idea what your talking about.

“Moving on, high velocity moves the point of flow separation further back on the airfoil; which in turn means a larger area is being used to generate lift or IOW laminar flow occurs over a greater area of the wing. The lift capacity (aspect ratio) of the wing does not effect the point of flow separation on the top surface. “

Your comparing to different things when your talking about airfoil efficiency and aspect ratio. If you want to compare different aspect ratios to judge their lift efficiency, fine. But to compare the aspect ratio to the wing camber is just insane.

“The further back flow speration occurs, the more wing area is being used to generate lift to put it very simply. As the AoA is increased, the point where flow separation occurs moves forward which means less and less area of the wing is generating lift. This occurs till the time the flow separation has moved so much forward that the wing is not generating enough lift to counter the mass of the aircraft and a stall occurs. A symetrical wing section will generate greater lift than a supercritical wing section even if both their aspect ratios remain the same or even with a slightly lower wing aspect on the symetrical wing. Ask any pilot/aerodymanist you know.”

As I said, if you think that symetrical airfoils are more efficient than non symetrical, your living in a dream world.

“So to put it simply

– Trainers are not faster turning because of high aspect wing ratio but faster turning because of lower velocity.”

oh yeah, back to your ballistics again, ha ha ha

“- They do not achieve higher AoA because of wing aspect but because of the design of their airfoil section.”

Has it ever occured to you that wing camber is a funtion of thickness and chord, and these things might relate to aspect ratio?

“FWIW I agree with you when you say a trainer such as the HAWK will turn faster and achieve higher angles of attack than a pure fighter. The only disagreement is the technical reason why.”

No I didnt say that trainers such as the Hawk will achieve greater angles of attack than supersonic fighters, thats your delusion.

Sorry to be harsh with you, but Im really getting sick of people here trying to speak authoritively about subjects they dont understand.

Originally posted by kya bidu
Not sure if you are discussing turn (attitude) or AoA (pitch)?

While aspect ratio effects the L/D ratio (induced drag is inversely related to aspect ratio), thus giving greater control to trainees for eg. How does aspect ratio make for quicker turns (which is a function of velocity and bank angle) or higher AoA (which is a function of airfoil section and velocity)?

For example in a turning fight the aircraft with the most power will win, because in the end it has greater power to maintain a sustained turn and retain its velocity.

IMVHO it is a simplification to think that an aircraft with higher aspect ratio wings will be better at turning fights than an aircraft with lower aspect ratio wings.

You almost answered your own question: Induced drag is inversely related to aspect ratio. Which is why sailplanes are able to glide at high speed at low AOA, because the high aspect ratio wings they use are more effiecient meaning less AOA to provide lift. We can continue the sailplane example by comparing the turning capabilitys of a sailplane to a powered light aircraft. A sailplane will have very little induced drag even at very steep turning radius due to its efficient lift drag ratio. Whereas a normal light plane with short aspect ration will need to set a greater AOA attitude to maintain lift in a turn, and the inefficiency of the low aspect ratio wings will create greatly increased drag and resulting loss of airspeed.

If you think Im making all this up, go to your local airport and ask a private jet pilot what the stall speed of his jet is at its high cruising altitude. It can be as high as 400 kts. Can you imagine a straight wing jet like the Hawk trying to dogfight at such a height? It just doesnt work, the Hawk would be constantly stalling and in danger of overspeeding. Primary jet trainers like the Hawk, L-159 and Mig-AT are in an entirely different class that the supersonic advanced trainers like the T-50.