If we look back at the start of this thread there was speculation that ALL the Gazelle fleet is going to be withdrawn. Is there any justification for this speculation?

I took a few photos of the Osprey at Fairford. They are on the airshow pictures thread.

Export of the F22 will surely be plagued by the same problems that are blighting the sale of F35 at the moment. Would anyone want to buy something that they can’t have operational sovereignty over?

Several of the US’s allies are not happy with the deal they are getting with respect to F35 purchase. While negotiations are ongoing with a sensible resolution hopefully to be agreed the US needs to remember that they need F35 customers probably more than the F35 customers need them. Even if the F35 is the best why should allies of the US worry about having “second best” aircraft when the only people with the “best” are their allies and so are extremely unlikely to ever face them in combat?

The best move countries such as the UK and Australia could play would be to pull out of F35 purchase. That would certainly give the US a problem, the cost per airframe would go up and other sales would be jepordised. This should make the US rethink it’s strategy, you shouldn’t be surprised when people don’t want to buy what you are selling when what you are selling is not what people want.

If the US doesn’t get their act sorted out over F35 sales then do they stand much of a chance of selling F22s?

Are they still to be equiped with Storm Shadow?

I think you need to put down the bong. A mechanic who’s going to fix your car doesn’t need to be able to know how to reprogram it’s computer to do new things in order to fix your car. ReLOAD the software or put in a new module? Sure. ReWRITE the code so it does new stuff? HELL no.

The US wants to reduce the cost- who wouldn’t? It also wants COMMONALITY. NATO would be pretty damn useless if their vaunted Typhoons, Rafales, and Gripens had to sit out the first days of the war on the ramps while US F-35s went in and took out the IADS and other high-value targets that were too well defended for the Eurocanards to tackle. The US is sick of shouldering the majority of the burden.

LOL I suppose you think they can fix your Ferrari down at the local garage huh? Seriously though do you think they’re making parts and writing code down at your semi-local Ferrari repair center? Nope. Hell F-16s come HERE (Hill AFB, US) for mods. Operators have done it for years. Do you have ANY evidence that the US is refusing to tell the UK how to FIX their aircraft? Didn’t think so.

I understand that it’s dumb business practice to give away all your secrets just to make a buck (although the Russians don’t seem to mind- we’ll see how bad that comes back to bite them in the ass I’m sure). As for my English, I’d be more concerned about your FUBARed math than somebody’s typo. LOL!

I think you have missed the point. The UK is just asking for enough TT to enable it to maintain it’s fleet of JSFs and integrate new weapons. It is not asking for total TT.

If the UK, on other countries don’t get what they need then they will go elsewhere.

“The US wants to reduce the cost- who wouldn’t?” I totally agree with you. But if they WANT to reduce costs by getting other countries to buy their prodeuct they will have to offer something that others want to buy. The manufacturer client relationship works two ways.

“pretty damn useless if ” IF.

I’ll ignore the “US is sick” comment. You don’t want to go where that leads! Other countries are sick of their troops dying because they were shot by the US. Also funny how the US never seemed to have a problem with terrorism until it knocked at their door. Most of the IRA funding over the years came form the US.

“Do you have ANY evidence that the US is refusing to tell the UK how to FIX their aircraft? ” Operational Sovernty is the whole issue here. If the US wasn’t taking a stance that jepordises this then the UK would have no problem.

UK has spent areound $4B on JSF development. That’s roughly 10% of the rapidly growing development budget.

Pleae don’t swear on this forum, it’s really not polite!

That’s why the U.K. isn’t going to get anymore. They are just not going to give. The guys have been down in Washington every week to shoot this down and we gave up the fight on the Presidential helicopter because they are going to back us on this. We’ll see! 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀

Can you amplify your last response, it’s not easy to understand!

Who do you think is not going to get anymore of what? Who is not going to give? Which “guys”? Who is going to back you on what?

The US wants other countries to buy the JSF in order todecrease the cost per aircraft. It can’t complain when the prospective buyers have second thoughts because they find out what the US is offering is not what they want.

With respect to workshare the UK’s investment bought it two things. Firstly the right to influence the design of the aircraft (in reality this is limited) and a workshare of the production work. This investment has paid of very well, the sterling value of the workshare is set to far exceed the investment.

At the end of the day it is all business. The negotiations will run their course and a way forward will reached.