1MANWell, the US and its Allies will purchase the F-35 in the thousands. As for the Russian AESA. If, you believe that source to be reliable and accurate. Then why go with the Flanker at all. Just plus a large AESA Radar in the Mig-31!
Based upon the price range I assure you there will NOT be thousands of F-35’s sold, show me some sources (Which I know they don’t exist) thats state even 500 will be bought, let alone thousands!!??:)
1MANSome sources -like jane’s missile system- claims that basic PAC-3 missile has about 16km range, and MSE missile has more %20-25 range. That means a little more than 20km. Altough PAC-3 missile system is short ranged, the missile launchers can be dispersed in wide area, so all over coverage is probably close to those S-300 series.
Wron the S-300PMU-2 has a 125 Mile range, but by the time the missile tracks and engaes the target, it (the target) will be around 105 miles away from the launch site.
1MANA few of these sounded fishy (wouldn’t be the first time AvWeek screwed something up).
1. Apparently the range of PAC-3 is more like 40-60km rather than the 20kms that’s been given practically since day 1. (The longer range could be because against an air-breather the PAC-3 can fly a semi-ballistic “shaped trajectory”. )
2. PAC-3 MSE’s motor, in addition to being larger than the basic PAC-3’s also is a two-pulse motor for better end game performace.
3. AvWeek states that one PAC-3 MSE fits in the same space as a four-pack PAC-3. LM has always stated that it would fit in the same canister as the current PAC-3 which is why the MSE has folding wings and fins.
4. Apparently KEI is only one to a trailer rather than two to a trailer that’s always been shown to this date. So basically one giant, cold-launched missile on a trailer. Does anybody remember that ATK was looking at a surface-to-surface version of this missile? First flight secheduled for next summer.
5. A 2-stage version of GBI (the configuration for Poland) is suppose to be flight tested next year as well.
Pic looks photoshopped.
1MANSo you agree with the way Chavez and Putin are changing their “Democracies”?
They haven’t changed anything, it’s the west which want to black-ball them and make them “look” the bad guys, so when they (the west) start WWIII the mass-majority of the civillinan population supports the west against them, Rus/Ven.
1MANIrbis figures are consistent, if we go by NIIP/Sukhoi press releases. They stated 350-400 km for a 3 SQ MTr target, which translates to around 90 Km (using 400) for a 0.01 target. 4th scale law.
Actually it’s more like 310 N.Miles: http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Zhuk-AE-Analysis.html
1MANEven if one F-15 was shot down it hardly makes a case……….and I doubt even one was shot down at that.
Regardless, Russia needs to quickly move past any Flanker variant on get the PAK-FA. Then if it can prove that its any least in the Ball Park of the F-22 and F-35. I mite have a small share of the Fighter Market…….
The Su-35BM is better than F-18’s APG-79 and ANY F-15/16 but not the F-22 although it’s not FAR behind at all: http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Flanker-Radars.html
The reason for the 35BM is because the west is NOT going to be purchasing 1000 5th Gen Fighters like many think, so about 300 PAK-FA’s and 2000/2500 Su-27/35’s will be what Russia needs to deal with NATO.
1MANSeriously? You’ve never seen me lash out against US support for Israel, state that iran should be allowed to develop its own nuclear arms if it wishes, or the asinine view of American politicians in viewing China as some serious threat that we need to deal with? What is wrong with you? Or did you just not have an answer to my question?
The reason you haven’t IS BECAUSE you are like the typical American who DOES believe the “official” (LIE) story, THATS WHY!!:o:D
1MANJust by the way did you know North Korea is offically called “Democratic People’s Republic of Korea” 😀 So much for names ^^
Yes “Democracy” is basically the rule by majority (Not majority of what the citesens want, but what the “Elected Officials want”) so scince the form of Government that N.K. has is “Communist” or “Socialist” (if you prefer)
It’s a Democratic form of Government, based upon Communisim/Socialism.
1MANMy use of that term has absolutely nothing to do with his position related to US foreign policy. Note that I haven’t been referring to Putin or Medvedev as dummies. So please, where do you get off deciding what I meant by the statement regarding Chavez?
What ever your so called excuse is, I have always noticed any nation that defies the illegal/immorall polacies of the U.S. is called Stupid/Dummy, and you ain’t no different from all the others, no matter how much you “TRY” and sound different, with any of your explanations of why you called him that.
It is Americans who are the STUPID ones who don’t even know their laws are broked by those who they THINK they elected for the gain of economic wealth, descised as spreding “Democracy” (The U.S. isn’t even a Democracy, it’s a Constitutional Republic”) or War On Terror.
1MANEventually all tech advances get countered. I am of the belief however that the F-22s combo will be dominant for many years to come. Shooter radars which ultimately guide the weapons just dont have the power to detect VLO targets at relavent ranges even if cued by the inaccurate long wave radars that are generally massive/imobile/ground based. Shooter radars have exponetial range performance against RCS – the F-22s frontal RCS is apparently in the region where air-based radars asymptote. This is an important note.
Irbis – seems a pretty impressive piece of kit. But the figures released for it are pretty contradictory as mentioned earlier. The 3 m^2 = 400 km and the 0.01 m^2 = 90 km are contradictory.
Actually it’s more like 150NM: http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Flanker-Radars.html
Secondly and most importantly we don’t know what these figures mean. They could be in any mode – as mentioned earlier it could be VS mode or RWS for all we know. This being the upper detection end – when does it allow for guidance of a missile? At 300/60 kms etc etc?
But ignoring this and taking the the value they cite for stealthy targets. Namely 0.01m^2 = 90 km. Against the classified frontal RCS of the F-22, which is reportedly in the region of 0.0001m^2 or the lower end of a metal marbles RCS – The detection range of the Irbis will be slashed to about 28 km (see the asymptote reference above). Which is not near good enough against an F-22 – and with the AIM-120D(reportedly has a range of 180 km?) they might need to detect the F-22 at ranges of 100 km + to have a “chance”.
Now I know this is the best case scenario for the F-22 and real air combat is as Zare says it is: namely not absolutes. But the F-22 unless seriously outnumbered is generally going to do this all/most of the time. Why? Because of the ESM/EW suite named AN/ALR-94 – with this the Raptor will detect any emission(be it datalink, radio, lasers?, Irbis etc) from a “Super Flanker” well before the Irbis has any knowledge of the F-22. It will then vector in to provide the best KE and VLO advantage while merely super-cruising to the flight of Flankers and dispatching them.
The F-22 weapon system is designed to be undetected/unsuprisable – it can sneak up and kill like a sniper – but doing the same to F-22 in a Flanker class fighter is not going to happen in numerically similar engagements or even ones which favour the Flanker considerably. Unless the Flankers seriously outnumber the F-22s and are scattered throughout the battlespace which prevents the F-22 getting the best VLO/KE characteristics against all Flankers – the F-22 will win almost every time. Many simulations have confirmed this point of view from JOUST to SILVE.
Thats what ECM/ECCM are for to make it even that more difficult to be detected, I trust the Su-35BM’s will be able to Not be detected for a while, at the same time trying to lock on and shoot the 22 down, which wont be that hard, but the PAK-FA is defenately going to be the answer to the 22.
Even if the Flankers somehow detect the F-22 before it has fired its weapons the Flanker will generally be at a much lower energy state probably sub-sonic – it will have its own set of ROEs. How long will that radar take to track/ID an F-22 once it has suddenly been detected it? How much time does this give the pilot to react? How will the weapons cope with a VLO target?
Saying the F-22s AN/APG-77 can’t detect the new Flankers in LPI mode at considerable ranges is stupidity at its best. Even modern IRST/Super IRSTs have huge drawbacks – such as the volume of airspace one can scan. Range against supersonic non-afterburning targets. Weather. Laser warning recievers have top notch accuracy with accurate triangulation possible on board a single platform/AC.
Cheers.
1MANI smell BS on this article. For one, we all know 4 F-22s can take on 50 Su-30/35s with no problem :dev2:
Not according to people that actually studied it: http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Flanker-Radars.html
But honestly, something seems a little fishy about this “Pacific Vision” battle.
Superior numbers I can see, but isnt that exactly what the F-22/F-35 and to a lesser degree F-18E/F are designed to counter with “superior” avionics and SA?
1MANLast Ichecked Georgia got kicked out of S.O./A
1MANIm sure the U.S. and Israel can cover it up, but come on? 5 reported shootdowns of F-15s and no pictures of a crash site, no gun camera footage and no other proof other than the claims of the Syrians. Until I see some actual proof I don’t buy that for even a second.
The Iraq’s downed a couple back in 91.
1MANYou should see how effective he thinks the AAMs on the Mig-31 are then.:cool:
Well what he posted on that thread is believable, I don’t understand what your saying??
1MANThose two or three Su-34 are more effective than couple of dozen F-111. More than 1000 test flights for perfecting Su-34 in 21st century on 8 to 10 machinese and considering Sukhoi Aerodynamics knowledge and experiance. These 1000 flights are almost equal to 10,000 flights for any other developmental program in previous era.
Alot of information about Su-34 is not released. 1 Su-34> 12 Su-27.
As a pro-Russian Tech lover, even I have to DIS-agree with you on this one 2-3 Su-34’s could not be more effective than 24 F-111 are you joking?!:confused::confused::confused:
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