Really looks like the Russian Air Force is not to healthy from what i can find on google.

The simple fact I have to explain this to you shows, you don’t understand who Governemets realy function, the Russian airforce has 250 operational Tu-22’s and 400 built, some are ready to be scrapped, just like the over 60 B-1’s’s that have.

No that proves that that Patriot PAC-2 did work the way it was thought it would, not that the US lies. Now they have made THAAD and PAC-3.

My Goodness!!!!!!!!!!!
the level of “DENIAL” you Americans sink to, when the evidence, shows the U.S. didn’t do a certin thing that is “popularly” believed, is UNBELIEVABLE” are you saying that the U.S.-Gov/Military has not in the last 17 years said that the “Patriot” missiles shot down most of Iraq’s missiles, on news stations like A.B.C. C.B.S. N.B.C. FOXNEWS C.N.N. M.S.N.B.C. C.N.B.C. and especially “The HistoryChannel” I’ve seen them with my own eyes, they LIE they don’t exagerate they outright lie and say that most of Iraq’s missiles were shot down, when that has BEEN prooven to be wrong.
Based upon my studies there are 2 “Official” reports the U.S. Gov/Mil gives,
the first one is to the public through the media, ( A.B.C. C.B.S. N.B.C. FOXNEWS C.N.N. M.S.N.B.C. C.N.B.C.)
the second one is publications that the give each other Military to Governmet/ Governemet to Military.
The second “Officialy” reports are more truthfull that what they tell the public, as a matter of fact there are so many things they haven’t told the public about the Patriot, and Russia’s military might, I really don’t blame a lot of people for believeing, the exaggerations and lies about “U.S. advancement over Russia”, anyways that another thread, here what thought abot the “Patriot” p.s. the coallition, should be very greatfull that Russia sold outdated-downgraded Scuds and other weapons to Iraq, because if they didn’t and sold them what Russia actually uses the winners of DesertStorm would not have been the “Coallition”
1. http://www.cdi.org/missile-defense/patriot-performance.cfm

2. http://www.cdi.org/friendlyversion/printversion.cfm?documentID=1798

3. http://www.ceip.org/programs/npp/bmd.htm

4. http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/docops/pl920908.htm

Truer words have never been said.

I hope you know I was joking around, are you saying the 117 was shot down? 😀

I completely agree, F-117 (still no parallel), Aegis (also no parallel), and AIM-120 (3 years before R-77, although both are post Cold War weapons), are just a few more of the NATO advantages over WP. The Soviet Defence industry literally bankrupted the Soviet Union, as they had to react to such western events as the Reagan Plan of the early 1980’s, which outdated a generation of Soviet Weaponry. Yes the Soviets may have had a large armaments industry, but the cold reality is that it’s economy could not sustain such spending, so even if the Soviet Union had not fallen, it would have been a result of spending cutbacks in the defence industry, further widening the technological rift between NATO and WP. Despite this though, the Soviet army was one of the 2 largest armies in the world (China being the other), and even though they did have certain technological shortfalls, as the Russian saying goes, quantity has a quality all in it’s own.

Well the well kept 60’s era SA-6 proved the F-117 wrong over the skies of Kosavo now. Even if the U.S. came with a weapon before Russia did, Russia eventually weather it’s 1 year or 3 years latter came up with something just as good if not better, and don’t forget about Russia’s D.E.W. (Direct Energy Weapons) abilities, which were then and are now unparrelled, I really can’t see the U.S. defeting Russia from the 70’s til now, please help me, I’m so confused;:eek:

You mean like the Kryptons? You know, the ones that were such POSs that it took Boeing to improve them to the point of being usable?

It was the SS-22 that the Admiral wanted, and if they did improve on the Kryptons (which I doubt) any European nation can improve on anothers design, when they get the specifics, nothing knew.

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1Man said ‘everything I’ve researched ahs show the U.S. has used “media-trickery” to make it look special, but it ain’t, it will lose badly very fast when fighting a real opponent.’

Wow just wow, yep media trickery simple as that eh, i suggest you ask former members of Saddams old military about how the US used ‘trickery’ ,infact all those thousands of fighting vehicals be it tanks, APC’s trucks arty peices destroyed were all trickery, the highway of death – trickery all trickery. How the US waltzed up into the capitol of Iraq in two weeks: trickery again they were never there it was all an illusion. Seriously 1man even baghdad bob wouldnt be as simple as to believe it was all trickery. I really am stunned trying to get my head rounnd your trickery statement. I suggest you research a little more….

This is more proof your not on page, the media-trickery is the U.S. fighting nations with down-graded Soviet weapons, and then getting on CNN, and telling the world, “Russia’s weapons are nothing campaird to ours, were the best”
and this IS exactly what is the beliefe, look at all the qwasted posts on this site about how U.S. was so far ahead of Russia;)

No. I am questioning what is meant by best.
If you give Fiji the USN with all its resources, would Fiji be better off or would it be forced to use that force aggressively to take the resources it needs to maintain such a navy.
Would Japan be better off with the USN? Would any country in the world actually be better off with the USN as it stands today? If Russia would not be better off with 13 carrier groups then WTF is the point of calling what they do have second rate? It is like criticising a Farmer for using a tractor to pull a plow in a field when what he should be using is the best motor vehicle… whether than is a Porche or a Rolls Royce or a BMW or whatever.
The USN might be the perfect tool for the US, but unless the Russians have got world domination back on their minds competing directly with the USN is pointless because what they end up with will be of no use to them. Rather than building up their forces to take on the USN the would be better off deciding what they do need and building toward these goals. Sonar arrays to get US navy subs out of Russian territorial waters is a good start, and eventually when the money is available then satellites to monitor the sea near Russia would be a good step two, and then building new ships that can operate in blue water safely and efficiently will be step three.

What world domination, the only thing these stupid Carriers are good for is 3 world nations, they’d be sunk in 48 hours going against modern European, and (Especialy) Russian militaries, people like to have wishful thinking beliefes that the U.S. is the most militaraliy powerful,but in reality it’s only on paper, everything I’ve researched ahs show the U.S. has used “media-trickery” to make it look special, but it ain’t, it will lose badly very fast when fighting a real opponent.