Saturday, 09 January 2010 | Printable

In Plateau, purchase of Rafale is a closed question

References in favor of rival fighters in the second report will be discarded

Denise Chrispim Marin and Vera Rosa

The government Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva agreed that the Rafale-C, the French company Dassault, fits into a larger project of defense and therefore must be chosen from the F-X2 program to acquire 36 aircraft for aviation combat. The final word depends on the last items on the price of that lot, estimated at $ 10 billion. Based on this choice has already consolidated, the Presidential Palace has decided to discard any favorable reference to the other two fighters competing in the second report of the Air Force Command, delivered Wednesday to Defense Minister Nelson Jobim. The document does not establish order of preference.

In return for the Air Force, which will have its analytical work in perspective in the final choice, the Plateau rule out the possibility of punishment to the command of the recent leak of the draft text of the report F-X2, confidential and dated September 2009. According to a worker of President Lula, the attitude was “deliberate”, “serious” and harmful to national security. But, he wondered, the responsibility for the act “of a Brigadier” can not be imposed on the commander of the Air Force, JUnit Saito, whose “loyalty and integrity are unquestionable.”

In an interview on French TV channel, the advisor for international affairs, Marco Aurelio Garcia, ironically the crisis. “With this controversy, the prices of fighters tend to fall.”

For the Plateau, the most important reports is the lack of veto to the three competitors. Since the beginning of the F-X2, three other fighters were scratched by the FAB. The clincher, the point of view of the Presidency, is not present in the military-technical analysis, but the evaluation of strategic and industrial policies. In this aspect, the Rafale would have no rival.

According to the same developer of Lula, the F-X2 is part of a larger project of the Government for defense, which includes the standardization of the entire fleet of fighter aircraft in the country, including an embedded version for trimming a future aircraft carrier to be built in partnership with France.

The package that begins with 36 units will involve the purchase of a total of 120 fighters. In this plan, there are three requirements: technology transfer, subject to market and sovereignty unrestricted use of aircraft.

The negotiation between governments finalized last September 7 in Brasilia, the resistance of France at some points had been dropped. The initial cost of hours of flight, estimated at U.S. $ 14 thousand in the case of the Rafale, fell to $ 11 mil.

Dassault has given assurances that the jets made in Brazil, with the transfer of its technology, will have Latin America as a captive market. The French company will not enter the race futures contracts traded in the region.

With Boeing, maker of the F-18 Super Hornet, there is the restriction of access to source codes of the digital electronics board. It also weighs the risk of veto by the Pentagon to future sales of military aircraft manufactured in Brazil to other countries, as in the episode embargo Super Tucano light jets from Embraer to Venezuela, under the argument that employ components made in the USA .

Appointed as the best option in the report of the Air Force, Gripen NG, the Swedish Saab, brings two intractable problems, from the point of view of the Presidency. The first is the fact that its only engine is manufactured by American GE, which would result in the same risk of interference from the Pentagon in future business operations.

The second drawback relates to the cost of the Gripen, named as the cheapest in the report of the Air Force. The Plateau considering that the estimates are misleading because only 40% of the project that got off the jet. “This game is not the end necessarily the cheapest,” said an aide to Lula.

http://www.estadao.com.br/estadaodehoje/20100109/not_imp492973,0.php

The initial cost of hours of flight, estimated at U.S. $ 14 thousand in the case of the Rafale, fell to $ 11.000.

To be compared with the $10000 evaluated by the dutch for the NG

I’m a personal friend of the Folha de Sao Paulo Bureau Chief in Brasilia, he has read the leaked FAB documents and insists that they represent the LATEST report, not the first one.

Regards,

Hammer

It’s surprising because the were given the orders in October to not make the ranking. Because to weight each criteria is not military’s business.

Anyway very good job from the Brazilians. They really got the best deal they could ever dream of, and more than that. The French are naked now :rolleyes:

You base that on the aircraft being relatively cheap? Or do you have any sources for this claim?

I base it on the F35, A400M, A380, B787, etc, story.

As long as the plane isn’t declared operational, it’s paper specification, paper planes and paper planed invoices.

Even when it’s garantied price, like the A400M, I’m ready to bet with you 1 million $ that the states are going to pour some more money in (or cancel the whole stuff which doesn’t worth more)

Nelson Jobim: “airmen: technical evaluation, the policy: everything else” , he recalled in late December in the same newspaper.

As it’s a leak, one can even wonder whether the “rating” we see is the “overall one” or only the “costs one”.

Actually they talk about everything but technical evaluation :rolleyes:

Is is clearly an answer of the Gripen side in the little press agents wa-war to the good points made by the Rafale at the end of last year.

maybe some of you guys should google active cancellation and radar return transmitted deception
2 very different things

That’s exactly the same thing. What some call “active cancelation” is just an improvment of the previous. It’s not something revolutionnary that appeared from nowhere suddenly.

If you take the mirror analogy, you must here have a “pre-reccorded” RF picture of the plane inside the “mirror”, which pre-reccorded image will interfere with the incoming signal to make a return signal supposed to cancel the real RF image. Thus: the DRFM….
… and a pre-reccorded image for each incoming angle…. There’s probably a complete RF map of the plane in the “active cancelation” system (for those who believe in this possibility of course…)

That’s why a Rafale spent one year in anechoidal chamber

and the 2000D before

Now the more the image is ‘regular’, ‘low’ and without ‘contrast’, the more the system works well. That’s why I’m personaly convinced that the ‘stealth’ shape of the F22 is only half of its stealth, the second half being active means.
Rafale has ‘only’ this second half.
Just my 2 cents.

(now waiting for the men in black knoking at the door… ;))

-Gripen leading on Price but the FAB isn’t sure that SAAB and vixen could deliver the NG on time. Plus the reliability of technical infos given as been called into question.

I remember we’ve been flamed by some Swedish guys when we dared to put some SAAB data into doubt. Especially on the radar.

It seems we’re not the only ones…

In business we see this sometime: a company which is going out of business, which clame anything for any price to survive one more week. That just f*ck-up the market but it’s usually better to keep away.

Sometime we wonder who they believe they are talking to…

Man do they think France is a country like Burkina Faso or Zimbabwe??

Here it was the weekly press conference of the Ministry of Defense. The shedulle of the day:

– the ATLC in UAE
– Cyprius

As reported to the .gouv.fr site!

http://www.defense.gouv.fr/defense/votre_espace/journalistes/points_presse/point_presse_du_ministere_de_la_defense_du_17_decembre_2009

A lieutenent Colonel, who is not a politician and who is used with rough talk says: they (the EF) took a “tole”. Something un-translatable you can understand easily if you imagine a rugby team which put 42 / 14 to another one…

First I thought it was off the reccord but it not even the case.

It’s confirmed by the 1/7 site where a very respected captain say how much he’s proud:

I can not remain silent any longer my pleasure drivers who are out there demonstrating the capabilities of the French flagship aircraft, are really raising high the colors of France, winning magnificent victories against other nations.

Then other highlight:

“What is reported is a bomb in the world of military aviation. Finally, we know what is really the Typhoon, and Rafale Raptor … “

Sh!t now!!!

So they can be 4 nations and France one, they can use as much distorted arguments as they want, they can try to win it on the bias and bad fairth ground – and succeed – they can take all this and put it where they want:
7 to 1 IS significant.

Oh, and the only bias concerning the ROE is that the Rafale used degraded Mica (4 to 0) then even more degraded Mica (3 to 1)

Cougar133: 🙂

@cseven, my try :

LANDIVISIAU
Traductions OTAN – Français
Front = <—
Back = —>
Blue = Gentils
Red = Méchands
F-TWENYTOO = RTB
Crazy french pilot = vous volez trop bas

Or it’s the user manual of the plane:

– click on the threat icon on the MHD using the mouse,
– drag it with the mouse to the trash box and release the button of the mouse,
– click the right button of the mouse and select the following option:
* ‘replay’ to shoot a second missile to the same target,
* ‘next’ to shoot automatically another target,
* ‘friendly fire’,
* ‘fry’ to fry the foe’s spermatozoons using the AESA radar
* ‘UFO’ to open the contextual menu for targets from outside the solar system.