I understand Global reasoning.

UMS is a 50/50 partnership between Thales and EADS and EADS is 50% French.

=> UMS is 75% French 🙂

On another hand Airbus is French according to the Americans when they want to disparage the Tanker deal given to Airbus (see Global’s links), but to me it’s more and more German in fact, since the A380 and A400M f*ckups 😀

…and it re-become French when the news that Airbus has delivered 483 planes in 2008 vs 375 for Boeing fall 😉

Better to laugh about all this…

Arthuro, I’m more than impressed by your patience on front of such a load of disonesty.

I now strongly suspect Greg to be a Greek Jako since the article he posted is in total contradiction with his words. He forgot that Google translator has been invented or what?

On another hand, if he says that the Rafale isn’t well placed in Greece sound like a good news now because the total opposite means: “It is well placed” 😉

Pilots are all the same. There’s no more bias and bad fairth than pilots during simulated fight debriefings 😀

So we must certainly not listen at only one bell sound here.

Anyway I remember vaguely of something different, the Greeks were surprised that the Rafale shooted the Mica from so far away (they know the Mica). In another hand, the way the Mica is controled through the LAN is much more sophisticated with a Raffy than with a 2000…

So if you count them as a kill or not make a completely different picture. As an example.
Also the Mirage 2000 can handle the F16 in dogfight but the Rafale eat the 2000 at breakfast every morning according the Rafale’s pilots AND 2000-5’s pilots (in spite their bias and bad fairth :D)

Where’s the mistake?

Both S-400 and S-300V are designed to destroy high flying supersonic missiles and TBMs.

Actually you’re right but a cruise missile fliying low level can also be detected by a AWACS and intercepted by classical AA means.

Both principle have probably their strong and weak points. That apply for antiship missile too btw, Russian supersonic Ssn22 Sunburn Missile vs Harpoon/Exocet for instance.
Edit: a antiship missile based on the ASMP has been studied as well: http://www.janes.com/defence/naval_forces/news/jdw/jdw000112_01_n.shtml

@Rob

The only aim of my post was to show that we are all in the sh!t to a certain extense. Everybody. Rafale, Eurofighter, Gripen, Mig… just to pick the European ones (cuz when you look at the F22, F35, SH, a lot can be said either).

And there’s nothing surprising. Solve problems and handle sh!t has a name in our world: ‘work’
‘Work’ means ‘solve problems’ 90% of the time.

That’s only for idiotic journalists that ‘work’ means ‘dig the sh!t deeper’

So stop it, we all work hard to solve our week points, everybody do his best. Aviation industry is composed of very serious people: high level ingeneers who work hard.

Your trolling as well as jako’s sly behaviors with covered words, little insidious sentences in the back, rumors, etc, just look like another kind of work: a protitute who defend her square metter of sidewalk.

Come on, some comment are completely idiotic. Let’s not go on that ground (for the frenchy mainly, for some idiotic union jack waver, well… it’s not surprising)

Now let’s study the spins of the London Joseph Goebel spining school:

1- The Rafale is like a fruit which has stayed for to long in the shop window and that nobody want anymore LOL.

Well, Korea and Singapour attempts were almost kamikaze attempts. It fail but the fact it went so far in the competition is already an archievement in a so well guarded US field. Saudi Arabia is a traditional buyer of british kits.
Still nothing surprising at this point.

2- The french are desperate with their Rafale

Tell you what: the desperate one is not exactly this one. Eurofighter has 4 production lines too feed. With the previous cost overrun they don’t have anymore budget for future improvments, and deputies don’t want anymore to waste more money (to not been lynched by their population). They desesperatly need more orders to make the production lines work beyong the Tranche3 – which T3 is not even secured. In spite their effort they can’t close the gap, they slip, to make one step ahead they need to spend 4 time more money and endure 4 times more delais than the French when they make 2 steps ahead.
AESA, furure version of the EJ-200, (real) data fusion, A to G radar modes, recco pod, electronic war pod, reliability, even the gun, nothing works properly. All those issues suck, and specially suck all the few money left. And little by little the ship is sinking and it shows more and more.
To make a come back they’d need to pour a new mountain of $$$, or, why not, make another plane. But they don’t have the will anymore, they are tired and the members of the Eurofighter mafia now hate each other and just wait for one pretext to pull the gun out and shoot at each other.
The japanese for instance would have kept trying tenaciously. But not them. They are tired and prefer now to give their soul to the F35 and close this painful folder.
A bit exagerated but that’s more or less the reality.

In another hand Rafale’s production line is secured up to 2023, Dassault earn money with the current little production rate (anyway when Dassault will lose money on something: America will become comunist before)
The production rate can be doubled instantaneously. All future kits are funded in a well planed roadmap. With few funds they manage to widen the gap, Eurofighter just can”t follow the rythm which drive some british The Sun readers here crazy.

Other desperate ones?

Let’s not talk about MIG. They just can’t build fighters anymore or almost. They had to deliver used Mig-29 to the Algerians who returned them ASSAP with a kick in the ass for MIG, and bought SUs instead. There are no orders for the Mig-35, not a single one. Every ingeneer at MIG left for Sukhoi a long time ago, only the alcoolics remain.

The Gripen?
A good spin case. Probably from the era when BAE was in charge of the marketing folder. A americano-swedish plane with a ridiculous home base and a as ridiculous export base (every export were 10-20 pieces, the Mirage 2000-5 has done much better). They must make a low cost Logan to make it afordable and competitive. It’s maintenance friendly… indeed. There’s nothing in it LOL.
The NG: a paper plane. They want us to believe that it’ll keep all the good points of today, light, agile, maintenance friendly, all this but with more weight, gasoline, equipments, etc.
Don’t make me laugh. It doesn’t work that way.
They break a previous optimisation which made sens, and they won’t find any other optimisation without compromises. More weight on the Gripen? With current thrust? Forget. Better buy a Falcon 7X and put missiles on it.

All in all the Rafale is the more on the tracks. Not brilliant yet, but in the middle of those ducks, it’s not difficult.
(Note well that when we see the F35 either…)
And now that Dassault is gona own Thales (world 2nd biggest electronic supplier for aviation). So even more on track.

The AESA is there, it impresses, the M88-ECO is comming soon, the gun fires fast and strait, many projets are under finishing: satelite communications, laser comunications, electronic war pod, OSF NG, Meteor, ASMP-A, rockets (even guided ones), AASM 125kg and 1000kg. Even satelite launcher in going ahead more than most believe (well… anti-satelite launcher if you ask me)
The more we do, the more some barks, always the same. No surprise here, that’s the indication of who are the real desperate.
Wake up: virtual bubbles are crunching, Eurofighter will follow like the rest.

(Hello to jako the clown and rob “jalousy-is-a-b!tch” BTW)

When the M88-2 had reached the temperature limit to rise thrust,

Spot on. The M88-ECO 90KN actualy rise turbine entry T° from 1850 to 2050K 😉

1850 was already a world record, with the ECO it”s a new one.

There is no increase of air flow, just the curent air flow which is more “inergized”.
And we should stop once for all with this sterile debat. There were two demonstrator engines which ran at SNECMA in 2007: one for reduced mantenance and one for higher thrust. As simple as that.

Both reached their targets and the R&D folder was closed for both to switch to pre-production issues.