Theoretically it could be done that way, the question is whether Link-16 can actually provide for sensor data correlation like that, which is anything but simple to implement due to the spatial and temporal accuracy requirements. Gripen’s TIDLS can, but I was always under the impression that it was exactly this feature that set it apart from similar Russian links and Link-16.

Well… I don’t get it because with the data fusion, they tout away the fact that the datas of every other friend’s sensors can be displayed on your own display as if it was yours.

So if you have a OSF track (a line since you don’t have the range),
and if you have another track line coming from your mate (OSF or Spectra), it’ll sounds stupid to not put a spot where the two lines intersect.

Now I don’t say that there is not other problems, just that if so, I still don’t know what they are.

Concerning accuracy,well, if the Rafale can put a laser spot on the foe 25 km ayway, that means that the angular precision isn’t too bad no?

We’re not doing artillery here anyway , just have to drive the missile in a ~10km bubble where the seeker can lock.

Concerning the speed of the link 16: no, I don’t think so. Here it’s not a pictures or something like that but just common angles and position datas. No need for a big bandwidth normally.

Now I can read it thanks. This probabley goes hand in hand with the integration of a SATCOM into Rafale. Are there any news/infos available about SATCOM in the Rafale? Read about plans for it long ago, but nothing has been reported since. Might be a feature of F3+?

There was a extraordinary demo of a laser comunication between a Mistere 20 and a Satellite in 2007. 100% discrete.
The program is called LOLA and it’s driven by the DGA (so military purpose)

http://www.defense.gouv.fr/dga/votre_espace/presse/articles/lola_une_liaison_laser_en_premiere_mondiale

When you see the video, you see that the system is very mature and allows a high rate broadband (video)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2c9mg_liaison-optique-laser-aeroportee-lo_newsar

Edit: they say in the video that it’s between the DGA’s Mystère 20 test bed and a geostationary satellite. The debit is 50 Mb/s (100Mb feasible). The women also insist that the laser is “undetectable” which shows that it’s one of the aim of this program.

A great moment of the internet. One of those moment when you think that the time you spent in here worth it. Congrat 🙂

Jackonimo/john Lake

I wish Kovy come here to see it 😉 Next: “du goudron et des plumes” :p

After the MMI story one hand,
and the other hand we all know that in the spin school, the basic first lessons is to invent weakness of the other side where you are weak yourself,

So now:

what about EF radar compared with Rafale’s?
What about the “over-poweful” EF/EJ200 combo compared with Ze Rafale and its two M88?
and even: what about EF’s high speed mannoeuvrability compared with Rafale’s?

All those questions are relevant too. Because we know that the RBE2 is a more modern technology (PESA, LPI), we hear more and more comments here saying that the Rafale is very powerfull and push the hell (the EF is very powerfull too of course) and now we just wonder if the EF is not less instable that the Rafale finally.

The problem is that when one is caught lying once, everything he’ve said previously can be put into question. Jackonimo/john Lake have been very harmfull for the Eurofighter on this extense.
Because of his BS, that’s a long time that some people wonder if the Eurofighter is not just a Mirage 4000-5 MK2 on french forums.
(Which is good enough for some people who missed the F16blk50+ and M2000-5MK2 generation from their POV).

Where’s the cursor in reality? What are the real strong point of this plane? we just don’t know. Too many spins commited previously, too many lies!

Scorpion and Defexpo: what are the real comparative strong points of the Eurofighter?
(except the: “it’s maybe not perfect but it’s ours”?)

When you boys argue over unit prices do the prices include or exclude VAT?

Hi,

Even if it seems low (in the Rafale case I mean :D), the 59 Rafale F3 order of 2004 was for €3bn so a average unit price of €50.84.

And since in France invoices to the state are made TTC, it should include VAT

Not 100% sur though

A VERY good news for the rafale programme : 60 rafales will be ordered by the french government in 2009 !

So no slow down of delivery for the moment…
Reply With Quote

Add to this that the 8 Rafale’s removed from the previous 2004 order to fund AESA and other stuff have been ordered last year. There were still a doubt that the current 60 order will be 52 instead 60 but its not the case.

Finally the only thing we can complain about is that the order should have been passed last year indeed, but no big deal if you compare with the rivers of tears from some permanently pessimistic “experts”.

Edit:

Ehm just because of T3 and F3 doesn’t mean its the same. The 3 means nothing here. Compare data for aircraft of a given time! T2 and F3 (batch 3) were both ordered in 2004 and delivery schedules are almost the same! Comparing it to T3 is nonsense.

It doesn’t make sens if we agree that we are comparing the prices of a “basic” AA plane with a multirole one including a navy version, full A2G with ground following, standoff weapons and such, IRST+FLIR, Scalp-EG cruise missile, nuke ASMP-A ram-jet cruise missile, Exocet blk40 anti-ship missile, AASM, etc, etc…

The F22 cost 130 mil$ fly away price the same way as the Rafale cost 48 to 51.5 mil€ fly away price (last contract passed by the MoD to Dassault in 2004 for 59 Rafale F3s – depending on C to M version)

Those Dutch numbers are BS however. I wonder if the minister includes his brand new swiming pool in the F35’s costs…

I’m one of those who believe in Active Cancellation. I’m interested with this for several years and there are many clue going this direction (the Rafale has spent a looooooong time in Anechoïd chamber, the ONERA worked on stealth since the 70’s for nuke war heads (they work on digital models since then), see also the previous generation of ECM with some rumors about them, on so on)

My conviction (just a pov all right?) is that active stealth is half the real stealth. Of American stealth planes too. The other half is the shape, RAM etc, to make the return signal as regular as possible.

The Rafale own only the activ part (plus some reasonable shape treatments)

I also think that the Americans and the French are the only ones yet to have this. No nationalist bragging or anything, that’s what I think after many little indication collected here and there, that’s all.

See those video

from the ONERA
http://www.onera.fr/cahierdelabo/video/hq/amil3_hq.mov

The end of this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=268uLNXvSLQ&eurl=http://www.network54.com/Forum/242894/thread/1198576633/last-1199266399/French+high+technologies+in+the+french+arm

And the beginning of this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WEsVxzCp7A&eurl=http://www.network54.com/Forum/242894/thread/1198576633/last-1199266399/French+high+technologies+in+the+french+arm

A lot of time is spent to have a precise ‘map’ of the return radar signal of the plane for each incoming angle of waves. Too many time if it’s not usefull operationaly.

but they might not be able to control very unstable configuration.

Analogue devices are the fastest for “asservissement”. I don’t know the translation for this technical word, it translates as “enslavment” 😮

That’s a branch of ingeneering, an important one.

To explain it, it’s like manoeuvring the tiller of a boat. If you are to over-reactive, the boat will be brutal and you risk resonnance phenomenons. If you are to soft, you are not accurate enough.
There’s still reshersh done here, the folder isn’t close.

For machine tool for example, that’s not that a long time ago that CNC are numerical at the “enslavement” level, i-e coordinate 5 axis to mill complex stuff like a turbine blade for example – all this at a 1/100 mm accuracy.
And I’m not that sure that very precise/fast machines tools are numerical yet (still at the “enslavement” of the axis motors drivers level)

So if a analogue device can deal with the instability of a moderatly instable plane, it’d be able to do it for a more instable plane than with digital CFC, because faster.
Just that you’ll have to remove all the options that needs computing.

(Though digital devices are probably fast enough now, the accuracy isn’t 1/100 either I think)

It would be interesting to know, if Typhoon’s canards could be decoupled the aircraft would become stable as well or not.

I don’t believe that decoupled canards make a plane stable. I don’t see why it should and that’s not the point IMO. Just an opinion.