SloboI just hope Albania doesn’t decide to invade us, cos our fleet of a handful of Mig-21’s and G-4’s will never be able to stand up to their 21 Israeli-upgraded Mig-21’s or their L-159’s, and our M-84’s aren’t as good in the mountains as a Type-59 so they will get totally torn apart.
SloboMore curious to see if they mention the name (and any relevant dates) of the Sabre team. Just amazing stuff
They had no official name. The name Letece Zvezde was adopted only in 1985. The Sabre team got their Sabres in 1960 and flew for only a few years until they replaced them with the G-2 Galeb.
SloboAnd another thing… The Mig-29 overhaul is not costing 10 million Euros. That is just how much has been allocated so far. It may cost significantly more depending on how bad of a shape the planes are in and what needs to be replaced/repaired.
And they also received offers from Belarus and Ukraine to do the job (both of which were cheaper), but decided to go with Russia because they were not satisfied with the quality of work that the other two countries could do.
SloboHe quotes things I said about 2 YEARS ago. Things change with time. What I reported back then on MiG-21s and upgrade plans for them…WAS the situation at the time. Slobo either can’t understand that things change with times…or you just didn’t get it that he was quoting very old stuff
I already explained to him several times how the situation changed…he just doesn’t get it. The MiG-21 deal with Ukraine WAS indeed made and approved already since 96 by the Parliament…and finally when the situation stabilized…it was voted that the deal be canacled in 2001. Thats why it didn’t happen…insetad an upgrade for the J-7s was sought…and that didn’t happen either.
EVERYTHING I’v posted is what MoD says…Slobo just can’t comprehend such things. He makes fun of me for saying about F-5 deals with Turkey. I gave full details of that deal…and why it WON’T happen…but again this is too much information for him to understand.
Nice try trying to wriggle out of it but no dice. If the deal was made in 1996, then why were you still believing in it in 2004? If nothing happens in 8 years, a semi-intelligent person would realize that it was not true.
And what about all your other predicitions and tactical analyses? Like your claim that a Type-59 is superior to an M-84 in mountainous terrain? Where are Albanian Leo 2’s? And all the figures you gave about Serbian army (ie less than 200 M84’s, troops cutting down to 15,000) were completely off. I think it is plain as day that you don’t get your info from any source, you make it up as you go along.
If anyone wants to know what will happen, just ask Kapedani, and the exact opposite of whatever he says will happen.
When you spend a ridiculous ammount on your military budget (as Serbia was doing up till 2001 when it was over 6% of GDP I think!!!)…you’ll do well…
Serbia was in A WAR during those years. Generally a country’s defense expenditures during a war are higher than normal. That’s why throughout the entire 90’s Serbia spent a high percentage of GDP on its military. What is unusual about that?
Really?? Hmm…this was from February 2005
No it wasn’t, it was from your imagination.
When the Migs were operational…they got about 20-30…thats 10-20 more than yours did…but thats not the point becasue we aren’t here to talk about Albania…
BS. First of all, by the mid 90’s there were ONLY TWO people in all of Albania qualified to fly the F-7. The majority of pilots didn’t fly jets at all. Maybe Albania’s “top gun” got 20 hours a year but it certainly wasn’t the average for the entire airforce.
Are you telling me last year the Serbian AF got ONLY 500 gallons worth of fuel?? Damn…my car spends more than that in 3 months…
If you can’t differentiate between gallons and tons then why should I waste my time with you?
The difference Kapedani is that you make up things as you go along while I and most other people here get our information from official sources. Maybe if you didn’t invent things you might get taken more seriously.
SloboNot to **** on his grave, but does this one man really deserve all the credit for everything Dasault did? All he did was come up with the money to found the company, he didn’t actually design all the planes himself.
SloboWhy is this a good thing that Turkey is buying all the bases in Albania and getting control of the country’s military assets? Do you think that Turks are doing that out of the goodness of their hearts and don’t want anything in return?
Also I have a question: When Kosova gets its rightfully earned independence from Serbian oppression, will it build it’s own airforce, and if so what kind of planes will it buy?
SloboLets see…in 2005 MiG-21 pilots got an average of 3.5 hours of flight time…no thats not a typo…thats 3.5 hours as reported by Vojska magazine…with overall flight times for all pilots (including helicopters)…was 10.5 hours.
That’s incredible news you’ve got there, considering Vojska magazine has not been printed for several years.
Look at that, Kapedani caught in a lie! What a surprise…
10 hours of flight time a year…and you’r talking about Su-30s and 150 hours a year…
Yes…I must be here to paint a dark picture. Sorry I ruined your clear visions of the future…
First, 10 hours a year is 10 more than any Albanian jet pilot got. Second, as I already said on the first page of this thread, the amount of fuel will be massively increased this year and next. If my calculations are correct, based on how much fuel they got last year for an average of 10 hours, they should get about 10-12 times that many hours next year. An exact figure is impossible to determine without knowing what portion of this fuel is spent on flying.
Now before anyone accuses me of having wild dreams, I am not claiming that things are great for the Serbian AF right now, what I am claiming is that the situation is improving. Unlike Kapedani’s predictions that everything is getting worse.
SloboWOW!! – even double WOW! I’m going to have to increase my linguistics at this point. Even so – what an outstanding video – was it ever available commercially?
James
Glad you like it! I doubt it’s available commercially, it was captured from TV probably in 97 or 98. If there is any specific part of it you want translated I’m sure I or someone else here who speaks the language could help.
SloboHere is a video about the history of the letece zvezde: istorija akrobatskog letenja u Yu.wmv
SloboKapedani have those L-159’s that you said Albania was buying arrived yet?
SloboHell, skip the advanced trainer, send the pilots for training to a foreign country
So eliminate a 95-year old flight training tradition just like that? What if in a few years, we fall out of favor with whoever we chose to do our training for us? No thanks! Yugoslavia’s flight training program was top-notch, we trained pilots from Lybia and many other countries. This is one thing we don’t need to pay someone else to do.
Besides, our AJT’s are also used as strikers so you can’t eliminate the G-4’s. You could claim that a new multirole jet could take over the G-4’s strike duties, and that’s true, but like I said in my previous post, a new multirole jet would be too valuable to be risked like that, the much cheaper G-4 is better for that role.
SloboHow is the J-22 going to be replaced by a helicopter?! Maybe some of the recon duties can be taken over by UAV’s… But a helicopter can never replace a striker. The striking duties of the J-22 would be replaced partly by a modernized G-4, and partly by the new multirole jet.
I know we don’t need 85 new jets. But we do need more than a single squardon (the size of a squardon is up to the airforce, but is usually 8 to 16 aircraft), because this new jet will have to replace the Mig-21, Mig-29, and J-22. There is a reason Yugoslavia built a lot of J-21’s and J-22’s, because an expensive multirole fighter is too valuable to be lost in strike missions… You need lots of cheap aircraft for that role.
SloboWow Ink the PAK-FA isn’t even built yet and you already know that it’s gonna be too expensive.
Sure French or American fighters would be nice… But is France or the US going to let Serbia manufacture some components locally? I’m guessing not, while Russia surely will. Buying from Russia makes sense. Russia has always been an ally while the west has not, and Russia will probably allow us to use our own aerospace industry to some degree to build at least some parts of it.
Also, American fighters would be completely useless against any foe who has American support. Say you have F-16’s and you want to use them against a US ally, or against the US itself. The US knows exactly how the radar and computer and ECM and everything works, so they can counter it. If the US had to go to war against an opponent who had F-16’s and AIM-120’s, the US would outfit its jets with ECM and ECCM designed specifically to counter the APG-68 and the AIM-120, and the AIM-120’s would not be able to home in. This would not be the case with the PAK-FA.
As for neighbors not getting anything advanced… I’m not too sure about that. Bulgaria is very interested in the Super Hornet. Croatia is very interested in both a late model F-16 and the Gripen.
As for the claim that a single squardon would be enough. Yugoslavia operated dozens of squadrons of fighter jets. I know, I know, Serbia is smaller. But still, if our new fighter jet is to replace the J-22, Mig-21, and Mig-29… That is about ~40 J-22’s, about ~40 Mig-21’s, and 5 Mig-29’s, that’s 85 aircraft that need replacing. Do you really think a single squardon of 12 or 14 aircraft can replace 85 aircraft without a VERY significant loss of capability? Assuming we replace them with a ratio of 1:2, we still need a minimum of 40+ aircraft. I know this is not something that is economically feasible tomorrow, but in 2015 why not? Until then the Mig-21’s, Mig-29’s, and J-22’s will have to do.
Btw, all that talk two years ago of the J-22 being retired by 2006… BS. It’s still gonna be around for several good years, and the recon versions maybe even longer.
SloboThe problem now is that the AF is flying too many different types of aircraft. The J-22, Mig-21, and Mig-29 could all be replaced by a single type. The fuel shortage is not gonna be a problem much longer. The airforce chief announced that in 2006 the AF will get 4000-5000 tons of fuel which is enough to drastically increase flying hours to decent levels. After that, they will get even more. Here you can read the interview with him where he states that: http://www.odbrana.mod.gov.yu/odbrana006/08-10.pdf
In any case the Su-30 is a bad choice as it is relatively expensive to maintain, not THAT much of an improvement in capability over a Mig-29 (a well maintained Mig-29 at least), and not as good as what other European countries are getting. My personal opinion is that Serbia should wait for the PAK-FA. A dozen Mig-21’s were locally overhauled and will last until about 2012, and the 5 Mig-29’s after they are overhauled should also last at least that long. By then the PAK-FA will be ready and it will be light years ahead of the Su-30 in every way. Maybe we might even be able to strike some deal with Russia to produce some components locally, bringing the cost down AND helping our industry.
Fact: Serbia was the 15th country in the world to form an airforce, and one of the first ever to use them in combat (against the Bulgarians in 1913).
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