Re Hopkinson, you are right Web Pilot, having checked my book you are right, Hopkinson did fall victim to an O2 system failure.

Re German POW Camp records, there is very, very little indeed out there. I have researched this pretty thoroughly because my dear old granddad was a Guardsman captured with Harry Nicholls VC in May 1940, and the pair saw out the war together in Stalag XXB. When writing my book ‘Guards VC’ I had the German archives scoured on my behalf and there was next to nothing. Moreover the Red Cross only have scant records today of each individual prisoner, such as dates, camps etc. We certainly couldn’t find any camp rosters.

Oh Dilip…look what we’ve found!!! The Guest Book from the Stork Hotel for 1942. We will consider putting it up for auction at Shoreham Aeromart on Sat 30th September!

Well what a result! It might at least stop you passing off bits of the Stork’s dumb waiter on ebay as Spitfire parts!!! 😀

With respect, I think that before we enjoyed this exchange you were claiming a bit more than POSSIBLY. But I agree, both sides have been stated. End of!!

Whether Buck and Douglas would have then made the “connection” is hard to say. Probably at that point, no. Maybe Bader did later when he analysed things and Bucks written 1945 account. However, since we NOW know that the only 109 down in that combat did not lose its tail….Casson shot the tail off something….and Bader lost his tail……! Isn’t this where all this started? Full circle?

The evidence is largely clear, certainly beyond the balance of probability if not all reasonable doubt – Buck did shoot Bader down. What my own researches amongst the actual combatants and their relatives does not support is the suggestion that they knew what had happened prior to me putting the facts, as known, before them in 1995/6. Buck was genuinely shocked at the suggestion, which he dismissed, saying ‘Dilip, I was an experienced fighter pilot and well knew what a 109 looked like. I shot down a 109 that day’. Johnnie Johnson agreed that I was right but was candid in his written statement: ‘I would be surprised if an experienced and careful fighter pilot like Buck Casson would make such a mistake’, but he was insistent that I put the evidence before Buck himself. Sir Hugh Dundas wrote: –

Your letter of April 27th (1995) reached me over the weekend. Its contents certainly took me aback.

You ask me to ‘keep the letter close for the present’ and I shall most certainly do so. For my part I urge you very strongly to keep the theory entirely to yourself and, most particularly, not to put it before Buck Casson, as you say you have in mind to do so. You are, of course, in the realms of hypothesis and conjecture. Nothing is certain, not ever will be – except that if the theory got out of the bag it would very quickly be picked up and would soon be accepted by some as the thruth. I hate to think of the pain and distress which this would cause to Buck and his family, quie unnecessarily and to no-one’s benefit.

I do hope that you will consider my advice on this matter very seriously indeed.

Laddie Lucas, fighter ace, Bader’s brother-in-law and biographer, researched the evets of August 9th, 1941, for his book ‘Flying Colours’. We corresponded and he was of the opinion – obviously not having seen Buck’s letter – that DB had been shot down by a German NCO; indeed, when we were searching for Bader’s Spitfire in 1996 he wrote to the Times and stated categorically that this was the case.

Sir Denis Crowley-Milling hit the roof when I shared my information with him, shall we just say that he was not at all impressed with what he considered to be a ‘**** and bull story intended to grab headlines’.

Lady Bader has no opinion, as such, on the matter, but told me that being brought down over St Omer was ‘not something Douglas talked about. He wanted to be up there, fighting the Germans, not stuck in a prison camp’.

I also make the point again that I knew all of these individuals for many years and very well. As a detective I conducted hundreds, if not thousands, of interviews under caution with suspects regarding very serious criminal offences, including murder and rape; I was, therefore, both a professionally trained and experienced interviewer, and believe that had anyone been hiding something from me concerning the Bader/Casson matter I would have sussed it. Bear in mind also that due to my very close relationship with Johnnie, Buck and Sir Hugh in particular, I also believe that had they had knowledge I would have been sufficiently trusted to have been told the score.

It is difficult, I accept, in the cold light of day and with 60 odd years hindsight, to understand why they didn’t work out what happened in 1945. But I really don’t believe they did. Don’t forget that the air battle of August 9th 1941 had yet to be dissected, and German loss records studied. We know that on that day the Tangmere Wing grossly overclaimed, but at the time these pilots really believed that they were shooting German aircraft down left, right and centre; that Buck described hitting an enemy aircraft in such circumstances would not, I think, have raised any suspicions in 1945.

Did Buck and Douglas discuss the matter whilost PoWs: No. If they had, why would Douglas needed to have written to Buck in 1945 to find out what had happened to his fellow Tangmere Wing pilot on that fateful day?

Had I not had the close personal involvement with Bader’s ‘Inner Sanctum’ that I enjoyed for many years I would agree that the circumstances are ambiguous and could be interpreted that there was a cover up etc. But given my intense personal involvement with this story over many years, I do not and will not ever believe that was the case.

It has been suggested that Douglas Bader kept quiet about what happened to protect Buck. Having studied the man to the extent that I have, I would respectfully suggest that had he known, a very sensitive part of Buck’s anatomy would have shortly been in use as Bader’s tobacco pouch! Bader was forthright and to the point, did not suffer fools, and was hardly known for tact and diplomacy!

All of this having been said, Andy has his opinion, for good reason, I have mine likewise. It is there that we must agree to disagree.

Kenneth, for gods sake grow up and act with some dignity. All you are doing is making yourself a laughing stock.

Absolutely – but, Web Pilot, you can now no doubt expect to face the Wizard of Oz’s wrath!

Moggy has, I am sure, the 100% support of 99% of forum users. Moderators perform an essential but unenviable function – for which we thank them – and certainly do not deserve to be subjected to behaviour such as this.

NEWSFLASH!!!

The Desert Fox Hysterical Society wish it to be known that they are investigating claims that Field Marshal Erwin Rommel and Ving Commander Douglas Bader enjoyed leaves together at a scouse love nest. Society Founder and Chief Executive Hans von Testicullz said ‘What we find most interesting is that no only was Herr Ving Commander Bader locked up in Colditz at the time, but our great Field Marshal was actually dead, killed by his own hand. We are therefore commissioning a paranormal investigator to communicate with both men to clarify the situation. Indeed, we hope to reunite the former lovers on a TV show at the NEAM. We are also engaging a leading professional archaeologist, Malcy McKeye, to excavate the alleged site in the hope of finding clues’. The man responsible for the revelation, Mr Imadeit Allup, added ‘Of couse, even if this was true, which it isn’t, it makes absolutely no difference to anyone or anybody whatsoever, but it is a great way of spending my otherwise unfulfilled day upsetting people the world over. Isn’t free speech great?’

Ho hum, got to go and play with my Airfix models now!

Complaint noted.

However you leave me with a quandry in that if I give him a temporary ban he will be unable to post the apology that must inevitably follow Keith Delderfield’s posting if it confirms your case.

I therefore favour leaving his account open so we can all enjoy the fullsome, generous and wholehearted retraction that he will subsequently offer.

Moggy
Moderator

I absolutely agree – but I won’t hold my breath.