nuke1“toc-toc” hey swingy… there is anyone in your head? just for know if , after all I and Garry have said to you, we had someone that can understund what we said.
your knowledgent, your comprension of the basic rules of the war and, as well, of the flight pirnciples are apalling but not like your unability to understund almost everything that we said.
So, perhaps i don’t have intelligent questions but the problem is anyway that you haven’t any intelligent answer, even when you know some basic or advanced datas, you aren’t simply capable to feel what they seems to show.
nuke1So, if -ipotesis- Vietnam defense had putted let’s say, a derivate of the Srihke searchead or a HOJ in the guideline, or also a IR seeker even of simple type ( the space is enough in a Guideline almost for every employ, perahps also a pilot of low heigth-see the manned version of hte V-1) this could have transformed every B-52 in a “bright star” instead of a jamming blinder source. Us were lucky
nuke1The Ja 37 viggen is called so because J is for fighter and A for Attack. Is it enough to call it “multirole”? I don’t think that swedish are joking with these definitions. I don’t have noticed any squadron of the Tornado with such multirole capabilities, the Adv isn’t multirole, the viggen Ja is capable to carry an amount of weapons for different roles. If you want to have a airforces with Tornado you must to have some other als for air superiority. The ADv variant exists, but this version isn’t so well seen as “real multirole”
nuke1Hang on – Iraq was invaded because Saddam wouldn’t give up WMDs that he didn’t have! If he had given Bush an assurance that he would get rid of them then he would still be in power. But then his word was not believed so Bush would have invaded anyway. – Nermal
Absolutely right
Perhaps Pluto77189 would be kind enough to let us know to which planet it is that he’s referring?
Because it isn’t the third rock out from the Sun, that’s for sure…..
No, he lives in a parallel dimension planet called in the local language: Bushi.condi.rumsfield.cheney.wolfowitz.enron.nokiototankswearemakingthewarosterrorismnow,
in short Neoconnies’s land.
In short also, a arab is good when is dead. See a arab, shot the arab, that’s was said about commies once, now the terrorists, tomorrow the Frenchs.Who know?
i wuold add a discussion on FMJ film:
Joker: why you shoot at these people?
Gunner: they are vietcongs
joker: how you distingue from civilians?
Gunner:All the guys that escape when i fire, are vietcong. All that don’t escape..are vietcong well eduched
Joker: how you can shoot also to the cildrens?
Gunner: Well, they are slower than the adults!
Pluto, it’s true, the war isn’t a pic nic. But this isn’t all. How and why you are fallen this war? Who has demanded for? Who gaining about? Ask to your leaders to have a answer that not contains the words like: country , faith, terror (good one, “the war to the terror”: HAHAHA).
And also, Guantanamo and aBU Graib? What kind of war is battled there?
The war is a s..,y thing, so it’s better avoid this when it’s possible. If Bush don’t care top see 10000000 in the streets claiming “no war” the guilth it’s not of the world opinion, it’s the poltitical leadership that had failed to reconnisse teh situation. And Condi not is the real answer to improve this.
nuke1i say that the JA 37 has a overall multi-role capability not matched with any kind of Tornado, not that this latter is the worse for its specialized roles. Pratically, the only multirole fighter of EU are the mirages and the sweden fighters (atleast except the newer generation )
nuke1Ok, i decide for the retreat. This topic has becoming so similar to discuss the sex of angels that i think furhter discussion could only worsered the quality of the results.
Nobody will-luckly- will never know how effective could be the Granit or the Kithcen missile in their original role or newer scenarios.
But let me concede atleast these few observations:
– i think that with all the countries that are still deployng missiles like Stix or MM 38 exocet, if they could choice to excange them (ipotheitcally, don’t worry) with Granit i think they could be all but afraid for that
-i think that a weapons that can reach a target atleast tehorically is always still dangerous indepentently by the real targetting capabilitites (V-1 onward).
-i think that Iran is in the best geographic condition to defend itself by CVG attacks that any other country and if a long range supersonic weapon could be available for both hte employs-lands and sea- they could be only happy
– i think also that even the best defence tecnology isn’t necessarly a guarantee for the target. So, even if a Aegis could defend itself by supersonic missiles this not means that everything will be always so (see also the seawolf in Falklands).
-This is axpecially true in a real multiple treath enviroment,so the variables are too high to be easily handed. As example, think to the Cole(a non conventional war: why not?-think to the sinking of the St. Istvan in WWI).
-Think to the importance of the psicology: how were noisy the iraquis missiles launchs in Ds and OIF. If your missiles can theorically reach a certain tartget or distance there is no way to absolotely deny this possibility in real wars. Differently, is like to still believe that B 2 were able to hunt ICBMs mobile launchers in Urss (after DS a thing HARD to believe)
-If the US navy should start a war with a country with Granit alike missiles be SURE that they must be much more carefully afraid than approx to enemy shores defended by stix or exocet. No “Yankee station” there.
This is rougly what i think
nuke1i am as well very funnied by that. The pratical range of the AMRAAM is 100? In what conditions? Totally ideal, i think. 32 Km are much more reasonably. Expecially if the target turns awya after the firing of hte misisles.
nuke1Noooo, the problem is: is it all that you have to say about? all this is your knowledge?
All yours statements are based on this?
nuke1perhaps the tornado is the most powerful, but there aren’t tornado all round like the Ja 37 viggen, a real multi role fighter
nuke1“The Marine that ended up killing him was acting out of self defense. Personally, I think what he had witnessed had given him very good reason to shoot someone who he thought was faking death. “
incredible BS pluto.
*Flood. great posts. I will have more time to fullow this i hope
nuke1perhaps the real difference between the home on Jam missiles and the ARm is that these latter are capable to lock not only their usual wavwlenght but also a larger wavw band, so if a patriot can HOJ on a jamming on it a Ft2000 can d othe same with a jammer let’s say disturbing also a SA-2 or 10. This is important.
I have heard also that hte SA 2F had a sort of HOJ capability.
My guess is: if the nord-vietnameneses in 1972 were putted a :
ARM searchead (vs. radar jammer, or a real HOJ vs their radar jammers)
Ir passive (ex. a AA-2 or AA-3 IR)
or a SARH (ex. a SA-4 or 6),
with 200 missiles fired at 100-120 B 52s, i think that the 1972 bombing campaign in linebaker II could shortered to max 2-3 days..foer shortage of targets!
nuke1So, the GREAAATTTT highlightings of swingy. WooW.
Swingy, do you are aware of the –complaints about the Super Hornet.. just for example. Do you are aware of the complaints of the jaguar pilots when the double seat Tornado became in service..or the same for the F-8 crusader pilots when happened the arrive of the F-4 Phantom?
Also, Swingy, do you find that dispute thje usefulness of hte radars of the SU 25 is useful only if you think to a F 18 and NOT to an A-10? Etc etc etc.
nuke1Oh, come on, let us know. Post the testimoniance of these pilots (A and B i imagine) and let’s enjoy togherever to comment that
nuke1the problems that still, you aren’t capable to understund the psicological value to face or to have a powerful system is different to have a very powerful system. After all, teh range of teh SSN 22 isn’t bigger than the harpoon, not? So, how to explain the fear about it?
The targetting problems of the SSM land based batteries are present both for exocet and shipwreck. But the exocet is also with the addicitonal problem of the surviving before the launch or after that. You say that the SSN 19 are costly vs other missiles, but how many medioum missiles are needed to defence, let’s say, a Iran shores? And how near to the shores?
More, with a exocet or NSMISM if the enemy is oveer 100+ Km he is avble to bomb you with fighters bombers when you cannot do nothing versus even if you lock him.
With a Granit nobody is sure , even if theorically, if he approach enough to launch its F-18 or so. Not only, you should be sure to not have a hit on board, because we don’t talk about a exocet-type, but a missile capable to disable a carrier with a hit or cut in two a cruiser..perhaps exists systems more cost.effective but this is a potential very scary system and nobody should think less than twice before attack from the sea..
So, JS, you don’t se the needing for a supersonic cruise missile? Ok, the ballistic are also good for targetting surface targtes. But with this, i think that many could be happy to have a system that can be used in SSM roles on heart and on the sea.
Names? I’d say India, Pakistan, NK, China, Iran etc. Seen thaht hte original Shaddock was adapted for land based ops both vs vessels and vs land target with nukes or HE, i don’t see the problem, as tecnically or operative. If the probles is the non proliferation agreement, now, it’s another history. I could say also, that the countries that are ordered the the modified scuds or the new russian missiles could be very happy, inshtaed, if they can have SS 12 or 22 or 23 if only they could be avilable, or i should think that a scud is better than a SS-23 only because this latter was phased out for political reasons?
nuke1quickly,
if possible (to Flood) i’d want to go in the missile forum, insthead i’d could start a new topic there…
OP, the problems is that every one wants to have peace, but the wars still are happenings, and the two China are still arming themselves by decads properly to flight each others. Only few months ago a buisness of 31 billions was made with USa for Taiwan ABM defences..
As a wargame, why not? As you have said, the Ciws vs the cruise missiles.. do you find that this is a question always debated about the navies defence against the SSMs? Let’s èpose that the Taiwan isles is like a “unsinckable carriers”. Like Malta.
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