JF-17 Airframe life according PAC is 6000 hours (25/30 years), RD-93 life is around 2100 hour (with overall req. after ~800 hours based on WS-13 info.). Jf-17 would need 3 engines over its life time + any spares. Wait till next couplle of months and we will find out. Even if one JF-17 with RD-93 lands in Pak then it is a signal that the deal is on atleast for first batch.

WS-13 is under devp. based on chines web source since 2003 and achieved some success in 2005 and 2006, expected 2008/9 but it is possible PAF and other user may prefer RD-93 which has matured rather than something out of testing. The web sources at the same time say that WS-13 is using lot of RD-XX components

Any way just few thoughts

I cannot read chines but based on F16 data its easy to compare

1. Lenght 14m 16.4 14.50
2. Wingspan
3. ?
4. Wing sq meter
5. Empty weight
6. Normal Take off weight ( wing tip AAM only in case of FC-1)
7. Max take off weight
8. ?
9. thrust to weight ratio mil power
10. Thrust to weight ratio adfteron burner on
11. Internal Gun
12. Weapon stations
13. Max extyernal load
14. ?
15. Engine NAme
16. Dry thrust (MIL thrust , 100%)
17. Full afteron burner/wet thrust
18. Ferry Range
19. ?
20. Max Mach #
21. Max meter / min climb rate
22. Max Altitude
23. Max G limit

Some data needs clarification like FC-1 Normal take off weight is more now (9100 kg previous, now 9400 kg also mach #), what is the source?

cheers

Question just curious IL 78 Midas is a tanker/transport like newer western type Airbus MTTR, Boeing 767 MTTR, meaning can be used as tanker or tansport or both?

PAF Chief statement:
“In addition to this, the PAF is also awaiting the delivery of air-to-air refueling system. The air chief hinted at acquisition of platforms from Ukraine. He also informed that the PAF was working on a pilot project for upgrading some existing aircraft for the purpose of aerial refueling. “

IL-78 Midas
Based on (or converted from) the airframe of the Il-76M military freighter, this aerial refueling tanker aircraft entered service in 1987 to replace the elderly and incapable Myasishchev M-4 “Bison”. Fitted with three Severin/UPAZ PAE external refueling units, one under each wing (which are reportedly sometimes removed on missions involving only a single receiver aircraft) and one mounted on the port side of the rear fuselage, the Il-78 is a three (or sometimes two) point air-to-air probe and drogue tanker aircraft capable of delivering fuel at a rate of 900 to 2,200 liters/min.
Internally the Il-78 has a pair of enormous cylindrical, pallet-mounted fuel tanks in the cargo hold, together containing 35 tonnes of the aircraft’s 100-tonne total transferable fuel load. The refueling process is monitored by an observer occupying the former tail gunner’s position and controlled from the flight engineer’s station in the cockpit. Receiver/tanker rendezvous is facilitated by a simple homing radar housed behind a broad flat aft-facing radome located forward of the standard rear loading ramp.
Primary Role Aerial tanker National Origin Uzbekistan Manufacturer Ilyushin Design Bureau Crew: six Capacity: 48,000 kg (105,800 lb) of fuel Length: 46.59 m (152 ft 10 in) Wingspan: 50.50 m (165 ft 8 in) Height: 14.76 m (37 ft 1 in) Wing area: 300 m² (3,230 ft²) Empty: 40,000 kg (88,000 lb) Loaded: kg ( lb) Maximum takeoff: 190,000 kg (418,000 lb) Powerplant: 4x Aviadvigatel D-30 KP turbofans, 118 kN or (26,500 lbf) thrust each Performance Maximum speed: 850 km/h (530 mph) Range: 7,300 km (4,551 miles) Service ceiling: 12,000 m (39,360 ft)

May be this , just a guess

There is another report which I cannot find right now

http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/apr2006-daily/03-04-2006/main/main8.htm

Pakistan may buy US, Chinese and Soviet planes

By Muhammad Saleh Zaafir

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan has decided to purchase state-of-the-art Chinese F-10 (Jian-10) multi-role fighter-cum-bomber planes while the decision pertaining to purchase of US made ultra modern F-16 planes would be made in July next.

Meanwhile Moscow has signalled to Pakistan that like the US, it could also de-hyphenate its ties with Pakistan and India. As a result of this change in thinking, Pakistan could also go for Russian made planes for the Pakistan Air Force (PAF).

The first batch of high-profile JF/Thunder-17 aircraft jointly being manufactured by Pakistan and China will be ready for induction early next year, ahead of the schedule. These planes would be flying in the same year in the skies of Pakistan and China as part of their respective air forces. Air Chief Marshal Tanveer Mahmood Ahmad Chief of the Air Staff will visit China shortly to inspect the project. It will be his first foreign trip as the Air Chief.

Highly placed defence production sources revealed to The News here the other day that Federal Secretary for Defence Production Lt Gen Ali Jan Orakzaie who had gone to China last month has now returned to Islamabad after an extremely fruitful visit. He was tasked by President Musharraf with exploring the possibilities of acquiring the high-tech planes and other weaponry systems for the three services preferably with transfer of technology basis.

During his visit to China in February this year, President General Pervez Musharraf was shown the F-10 (also called as J-10 or Jian-10) considered to be the Chinese most secret flying machine. He was the first foreign dignitary/head of the state who chanced to see the demonstration of the multi-role fighter. It is the part of Chinese fourth generation fighter programme which sent waves of worry in India. Indian sources used to say that the programme had the collaboration of Pakistan, Israel, Russia, France and Italy. The rumour based Indian speculation was never owned or denied by the Chinese who love to maintain their peculiar style. The Indians used to say that Israeli input was visible on design while electronics and weapon technology had the mark of French assistance. The F-10 also has the similarities with Israel’s Lavi fighter, but predominantly it has the edge like Russian Sukhoi Su-30 MK multi-role aircraft that has in some aspects outsmarted the US made F-16. Russians have supplied 100 such planes to China recently for induction in Peoples Chinese Air Force (PCAF).

Sources indicated that F-10 are the aircraft of the new century and they have recently been rolled out. No one knows the number and positioning of the planes as Chinese kept the secret close to their chest till now considering it as their secret weapon. With an understanding about provision of the planes to Pakistan, Beijing has unveiled it since the plane in question would fly for the first time out of the air frontiers of China. The Chinese engineers and scientists are still working to improve it further. Pakistan has decided to buy in first stance two squadrons of these planes. The mode of supply and price would be worked out through the system both the countries have. Secretary defence production has confirmed Pakistan’s intention of buying the J-10 aircraft.

In another related development Pakistan has planned to buy US made F-16 in less number and in all likelihood the number would be cut to half of what Islamabad had initially planned to purchase. Pakistan had made up its mind to buy 55 brand new F-16, but now the number which Pakistan is expected to ask is 25 while 30 used planes will be bought from sources that the United States will identify. The second-hand planes will be later upgraded by the Americans and they could be provided by the US Air Force (USAF) or from any third country, the sources added.

F-16 are considered to be a passion of the PAF since they were the first high-tech flying machines that were inducted in its fleet. Pakistan had made up its mind to buy 75 new F-16 last year. The matter was at its final stage and the required legislation was about to be tabled in the US Congress for facilitation of the supply, but the devastating earthquake of October 8 last year forced Pakistan to request shelving the plan for the time being and Pakistan requested the US to keep the matter pending.

Meanwhile Pakistan is also eying the Russian defence production market. When President General Pervez Musharaf visited Moscow in February 2003, the Russians offered to Pakistan choppers but the deal could not materialize for certain reasons and now Islamabad has received positive signals from Moscow that could encourage it to buy some Russian planes. The Russian technology is very close to that being used by the Chinese and it would not be a difficult proposition for Pakistan to maintain such a system if Russians agree to supply Pakistan, the sources hinted. The Russian defence products are comparatively cheaper than the Western products.

Sources said that Islamabad and Moscow have started making contacts to initiate cooperation in the field of defence in some way. The Russians stakes are high in the case of defence supplies for the Indians but ever since New Delhi has opted to go in Washington’s orbit in a big way, Moscow is considering Pakistan’s request favourably, the sources added.

A visit of Ali Muhammad Jan Orakzaie to Washington in July next is on the cards.

The Joint Defence Consultative Group (JDCP) of Pakistan and the United States has been convened in early May in Washington. Federal Defence Secretary Lt Gen Tariq Waseem Ghazi will lead Pakistan’s delegation in the JDCP while the host country’s delegation will be led by Eric S Edelman under secretary of defence (Policy) of the United States. The group had its meeting in Pakistan early last year and it is expected that the May meeting of the group will take stock of Pakistan’s needs especially for its efforts to eliminate terrorists from its soil. The lists pertaining to Pakistan’s requirements in this regard are being finalized, the sources said. The ministry of defence production will be represented in the JDCP by its additional secretary.

JA01 and PAF, $

I think based on numbers (36 for 1.5 billion), J10 would again come with better electronics than PLAAF version so the cost would go up, if the radar is say Grifo version with better range or another one. But based on PAF higher up most probably the radar etc would be western and not necessirly easter so it would cost more (My guess 25-30 million) still far less than 45/50 million for F16 C&D(36 for 3 billion) but F16 still has the most diversified weapon options also GE/P&W engines (MTBO 2000 hours and Life of 4000 hours is twice of russian 1000 MTBO and life of 2000 hours of AL-31F the latest version M3 version)

Cheers

I think I read the data from ACGI report on one of the indian airshow or may be AFM(check AFM on IAF Cobra Sqdn Bison after upgrade report) but I do remember it showing 30 degree (plus minus so total 60 degrees) next to an Indian upgraded Bison

Another point do PG have MFD for radar? since f7p had total of 20 degree azmith so HUD view was enough for radar
PG has 30+30 so HUD is not enough (or may be it is ?) and I assume an MFD is used for radar.

All I know is that RD-400 or what ever the french radar contender for JF-17 has 400 watts power transmitter and said to be 80% of RDM/RDI performance in range but I do remember reading some where check manufacture web site?.

S7 is 500 watt transmitter , I would like to find out APG-68 transmitter power, and most of all computer/processor processing and memnory capability.

APG-68 (V)9 SAR has 2 feet image processing, no other radar comes close to it.

S-7 also has SAR capability but perhaps down to few meters rather than feet (RD-400 has few meters).

Just an FYI

New All glass K8 Cockpit staring 2005 according to Janes All the world Aircraft, 1 HUD + 3 MFD & HOTAS, good chance 1 FCU newly ordered 27 aircraft will have it , just my guess

Reposted a better picture