Which wouldn’t really affect anything, as the B-1B lost its nuclear mission years ago!

…and that the Russians don’t even hide their intention to fit their Tu-95MS with external payloads…

If it is to have an A2G weapons internally (which was clear) it means a heavy fighter and i can’t imagine it to be shorter than Raptor.

Who said shorter? I just meant “not much longer than”:D
Oh gosh, you got me: take your YF-23, put the air ducts a bit closer to each other, enlarge the horizontal surfaces, sweep them backwards, reduce the vertical fins, indtroduce a large flat horizontal aft section, remodel the forward section – you have your PAK FA.
Then you don’t need to be a rocket scientist to figure out the presence or the absence of TVC, refuelling system, large internal bay, the shape of the air intakes etc etc. It all derives from what I’ve just said and the requirements.
Besides, a massive payload of AG weapons does not have to be carried exclusively internally according to the Russian battle application doctrine – if the air dominance is secure and/or the enemy AD weak anyway. 3-4 FAB-500L carried internally or the equivalent in guided missiles will do. Look at the size of current Russian tactical AG missiles (esp. the anti-radiation ones) and you’ll get it.

The USA had long already developed high off boresight missiles and HMS before the Soviets’ R-73 system. Just because you decide it’s to expensive to do something doesn’t mean you don’t have the know-how to actually do it…

You’re right, but the discussion was about the systems fielded.
And anyway, I find it rather ridiculous to discuss the “10 years behind” lags and so on… Why not 12 years? Why not 5? What is the bloody scale the people use when they assert these senseless utterings?

it seems everything about the PAK-FA comes from these silly line drawings

You’re right in the respect that the paralay drawing are pure speculation and have nothing to do with reality at all. The Saturn drawing about which everyone was rambling about is even less realistic.
But you certainly understand that the ones who know will not tell, and the ones who know and can tell cannot take pictures, and even if they could would not show them to paralay and the like.

It has been times immemorial since I’ve posted in this forum, and God knows it was not for lack of good conversation and arguments. Returning to this thread I must confess that I find it apalling how shallow a discussion about a speculative matter can become… But this is nobody’s personal fault, it is the way speculative discussions go…

More than a year ago, I have already stated that, according to my info, the PAK FA will be more like the YF-23 than the Raptor. It did not mean, of course, that the PAK FA will be like the 23. My source was serious and I have quite good reasons to believe it.
Now, the status of the PAK FA programme is quite clear: they are REALLY working like hell to stay within schedule, they got all the funding they need, and my personal belief is that they will get the thing into the air in 2009 as stated. Possible delays will be linked with system integration progress, not with airframe and structural component unreadiness.

I kindly would like to point out that Russia’s MoD doesn’t accept any kind of “block I, II and maybe III” production clusters, and any fighter has to be fully operational before being accepted into service within the AF. Maybe that’s why their GAO has little to say about the programme up to the present day.

As for the fighter itself, my source is adamant about the following points:

– no, it will be NOT inferior to the Raptor in terms of overall combat efficiency, which is not surprising since it’s still end-of-20th-century tech vs. (basically) 80s-90s tech, and since no one changed the basic requirements since the programme was started;
– the biggest difference with the Raptor is that the PAK FA will have a genuine strike capability from the beginning on. Knowing the standard A-G Russian arsenal, it explains the very big internal bay.
– my original assertion about “all-sector sensor integration” has duly been misinterpreted by some net warriors as “360 deg. radar”, which is of course nonsense. The RWR and passive scanning apparatus of the PAK FA will effectively be more potent than the Raptor’s equivalents, and it will most certainly integrate new gen. optronic sensors. But no one is speaking about an even-layered spherical radar coverage. Active sensors in the back hemisphere are discussed, though.
– Supersonic cruise is a given.
– active ECMs are extremely potent (in the domestic version)
– there is no agreement as now regarding export customers. India will get (if anything) a very downgraded version. It will basically be the PAK FA airframe and a downgraded radar. The Indians have not been very helpful with the programme as a whole and the Russians not willing to show them the real specifications, as the programme was advanced anyway and the Indians wanted to change the specs with their own interests in mind. Further coop regarding upgrades is considered nevertheless.
– and no, it will not have any “plasma shielding” or anything of the kind. The front radome shielding got an totally different treatment.
– last but not least, they will test a new camo scheme.

Breznev:
My Russian friends variously tell that if Nakhimov hasnt already reentered the fleet it will soon. I dunno.

Formally speaking, she is still in fleet service – meaning that she’s flying the naval jack and not the state flag, i.e. she’s not been formally handed in to the yard yet. Before the completion of the overhaul, she’ll get the state flag (“industry/yard trials”), she’ll pass through preliminary trials, then state trials, and only then enter fleet service again. I know, I’m splitting hairs here… :diablo:
My estimation is more 2016-17, because she’ll supposed to become some kind of trial ship for a lot of systems (partly of strategic significance – note, I wrote significance, not importance, so no ICBMs 😀 ) that are still being developed, and because 2015 is some kind of “magic deadline” for the Russian MoD at the moment, as it is the limit planning date of the current rearmament programme. But she’ll kiss the waves again in any case, that’s for sure.

As far as I know the Legend system is to be reinstated if it isn’t already, just as GLONASS is to be upgraded too. It makes rather more sense to put up a couple of LEGEND satellites than maintain dozens of Bears and Helixs for the same role of long range detection and tracking of naval surface targets… it is much less dangerous for the satellites to do the job.

GLONASS is a priority, a new RORSAT/SIGINT/ELINT ocean-looking programme is not (for the moment), be it Liana or a Legend redux. If the priority is not an all-out war with a major blue water navy like the USN, then you don’t need sat-based assets right here, right now. A combination of sea/land/space-based assets is currently the best option.

You ask me the Russians would be far, far better advised to invest in a SURTASS type capability and HALE MarPat UAV’s – if they want to get back into the bluewater game and are still wedded to the ‘big missile’ concept for antiship.

You’re absolutely right, and they came at the same conclusion – they currently are developing and installing a major surface and subsurface national surveillance system, with totally new assets and capabilities – it actually is one of the best funded programmes in Russia nowadays, almost better than the one of the nuclear deterrence forces – the only difference is that no one (wants) to (pay any) notice – it’s not so spectacular. But HALE? – they’re not soooo stupid :p

I think u havent taken into account the tremendous Wage growth, Currency appreciation and inflation that is happening in Russia in past couple of years which is continuing into the future.. I am not saying it will explaing 300% price increase but play a big part in it.

What if the Russians want to keep the ship for themselves? I’ve read a lot of India-bashing in the Russian press lately about that project… Like “in effect, they haven’t paid a single penny for it” or “it would be quite ok for Russia to fund it by itself and return her to Navy service…” etc etc.

I strongly hope that CA got this picture officially, and if not, not from a russian planespotter, because this plane and the “things” under its wings has been flying on and off its base for over a year now, but no one dared to release the pictures taken…otherwise, someone in Russia is having a very rough time right now 🙁