Just think about PAAMS+Brahmos combo!!! wow… :dev2:

Ahh, this never-ending “let’s make a cruiser out of a corvette” quest… 😀

Watch out IAC in 2014 🙂

Yeah, like I’ve been watching out Arjun, Tejas, MCA, and the aforementioned 877EKM since… Get real. :p

Welcome to the RuAF MiG-29SMTs!

Ex-Algerian models.

One might note the new cam. It’s one of the experimental variants for a new joint forces paint scheme for front-line fighters/bombers/multirole. I.e. more or less any fighter/bomber, with the obvious exception of the MiG-31 (not BM), Frogfoots and heavy bombers.

Consider how few years it has taken other nations to go from satellite launchers to long range missiles.

Well, I’ll mitigate this claim a bit.
Fact is, the USSR and the US started developing ICBMs first, and then put satellites in the fairing 🙂 The thing about the PS-1 aka Sputnik was not that it was put into space, but that the R-7 could carry 4 tons or more to the US 🙂 And the Sputnik was a nearly 90 kg thing that orbited for 3 months, not like the 25 kg Iranian sat that would probably not even orbit for 2 month, given the NORAD data. Another question if whether Iran will master re-entry technologies (and the materials associated with them).
For me, it looks like Iran boosted an IRBM a bit and launched a tin can into space, that’s all.
Great for Iran of course, and quite an humilitation for the Arabs, actually, with all their well-invested petrodollars, but nothing more than that.

Yes, but they were receiving vast quantities of material aid from the western allies, & weren’t facing the whole German strength. If the USSR had fought Germany alone, I think the outcome would have been uncertain. 12000 aircraft & 13000 armoured vehicles certainly helped, but not as much as the 427000 lorries which kept their field armies supplied.

But I’ve fallen into the off-topic trap . . . no more, I promise.

(allowing myself to fall in the said trap – just once)
You’re simultaneously right and wrong.
First of all, the 12 thousand aircraft figure is all but right.
Second, the whole lend-lease / military aid that the Western allies shipped or freighted to the Soviets during WWII amounted to just 9% of the Soviet war effort / military production.
Finally, in 1945 and long after Overlord, the Soviet army still faced and therefore locked 84% of the German manpower and equipment on the Eastern front.
No question that the Western allies’ support was critical and much sought for by the USSR. No question either that they considered that the “2nd front” could have been opened earlier, and that they did bear the brunt of the fighting.
And as a sort of PS and an excuse for off-topicality: congrats to Russian/ex-Sov forum members for Leningrad’s blocade breakthrough Day – a silent toast to all who starved and fought to death.
(end of off-topic)

First thing first ,I dont know if Yakhont exist , for what ever best existed of Yakhont , has been translated to Brahmos, which can be termed as Yakhont plus.

All in all you’re right Austin, but some details have to be set straight:

Russia has made a commitment to India that they will go for Brahmos as well , starting with Groshkov class.

Not exactly. Russia has made a commitmnt to accept the Brahmos/Yakhont to combat duty, but is REALLY reluctant till now to put it on surface assets – the best the Brahmos can expect is the Yasen subs as carriers. Well, of course, they still can yield and choose the Brahmos for the 1st Gorsh, but everything tell-tale like shows that the new frigate will be armed with a Club mix.

Now comparing Klub with Brahmos , I think Brahmos is one notch above Klub.

The point is there is no point to compare both, because they are two different systems altogether, designed for different purposes: The Brahmos is a specialised ASM or point land target missile, while the Club is a whole family of missiles that are modular and can be directed to a whole range of targets, even including runways (there even is a cluster mine-laying warhead in dev.).
Basically, it’s like comparing a Granit vs Tomahawk.

In terms of Speed and Accuracy even in a Land Attack Role in complicated target environment , Brahmos was able to hit the target with zero CEP.

A IR or TV guided missile can hit a target with zero CEP as well, so THAT is not a criterion.

In terms of Low RCS , contrary to popular believe a non-turbofan , ramjet engine which has low RCS in frontal view , so RCS of Brahmos will be equal or less than Klub

Agree with the premise, disagree with the conclusion.

In terms of intelligence the Brahmos is more intelligent system than Klub , co-ordinated attack like that of Granit is possible in Brahmos besides multisensors is being worked on as we speak.

The Club is no less “smart”, when optimised for a swarm air/land/sea to sea attack – as for other target types, this is totally irrelevant.

Besides the whole thing is software programmable in Brahmos which means new upgrades and algo are possible through out its entire life cycle.

Again, almost everything in the Club is modular, incl. software and algos – that’s one of the reasons why the RuN favours it as a main standard attack weapon over the Brahmos for point and opportunity targets.

Lethality wise Brahmos will be better than Klub.

That’s true.

Besides, I would like to remind everyone that the Club range of 300km is an export limitation, due to international arms exports control agreements. The Russian version has a 500km plus range, at least.

Old SS-N-23 were used to orbit satellites. Does this means that can be used as potential FOBS?

Well, in theory yes (as anything that can put anything into orbit), in practice – no, as the trajectories and impulse therfore needed are not optimal/sufficient.

My final words in this thread

Dear all,
since the beginning of this Saga, I have tried to post only reliable, unbiased and truthful information about the programme of the “5th gen. fighter”, PAK FA, T-50, whatever it might be called and is called by the “community” and the gullible media and “experts”. Obviously, because of the aforementioned ethical prerequisites, I haven’t posted that much.
For the time being, I am relatively proud to say that none of my “supputations”, suppositions and information that I have provided has proven untrue. Indeed, it seems that Zelin himself confirms (for example) the all-aspect sensor fusion I have talked about more than a year ago.
I have also written here that the “PAK FA” or whatever will be “more like the YF-23 than the F-22”. I have also stated that those who expect some kind of flying sauski or Firefox will be disappointed, as the RuAF requirements for the PAK FA differ from USAF requirements for the Raptor. I have also pointed out that the main breakthrough, and the main challenge, of the PAK FA programme will not be new aerodynamics, amazing stealth or incredible overall characteristics, but simply total sensor fusion and the implementation of brand new weapon systems and a very potent sensor/RWR/ECM suite.

Why do I point that out again?
Because this post is going to be my last post on this thread until the subject matter will publicly fly.
Why that?
I am sick and tired of reading speculations and trying to temperate them.
I am sick and tired of seeing artists renderings, some good, some less, being naively discussed as if the honorable person who devised them on his or her PC between 2am and a bottle of Moskovskaya (or Château Rotschild 1956 for that matter, I don’t care) had the Sukhoi blueprints next to the keyboard.
And on top of it, I am very, very tired of all the nationalist, pro-Russian, anti-Russian, pseudo-pro-anti-Russian redneck whatever ramblings that seem to enthuse the hon. members of this board much more than thinking about the next word they will use in order to describe their honorable feelings.

My last input:
Russian mass-media are not autocracy-driven, or democratic, or free, or unfree – they are just (for defense matter) mostly lame and incompetent.
Zelin has talked about 3 “5th gen. programmes”.
He meant: PAK FA, PAK DA, future land-attack UCAV. No it’s not the Skat.
He did not mention any “august 2009” deadline. The journalists made that up.

The said programme is doing well and progressing fast.
The airframes are all but ready.
Integration will be a big challenge, but I’m confident.
And again, “the first flight will not be the first” 😉

Now.
If I wouldn’t be so upset about what I read and if I would claim some recognition and respect, I would certainly humbly ask the moderators to close the thread till next summer at least because it’s getting nowhere.
But as I’m certainly not – please go on and speculate further and further – the sky’s the limit.
Till you see the real thing you all dream about, sometime next year, and then start an infinite number of threads like “PAK FA (it will be Su-.. … by the time) vs F-22”, “PAK FA is a hoax” or “PAK FA is not really stealthy (for flamers)”.

All in all, God bless you all, let 2009 be better than the pundits say it will be and clear skies ahead.