RSM55Basically, I’m asking what capability, if any, the Black Sea Fleet has to attack coastal defenses. And what ships would that capability be attached to?
In the current doctrine, coastal defenses around the Black Sea theatre have to be dealt with aviation assets.
It is true that the RuN does not have real land-attack capabilities as it was designed to inflict major damage on NATO/US navy task forces.
On the other hand, the modern ASM in the RuN have a “radio-contrast” and inertial firing and targeting mode, so theoretically the Moskva could strike some high rise buildings in Kiev – for example. But that would be a waste of taxpayer’s money 😀
For minor tasks, of course you have the obiquitous ship arty and some MLRS on landing ships, for example.
RSM55After a long time the failure of Bulava is due to failure of 2nd stage ( perhaps interstage seperation issue ? )
3rd stage failure.
The solid stages performed well.
The third stage is a bit “special”, 😉 , no wonder it’s difficult to get it working properly.
At least the solid propellants proved their worth.
There will be 4 more test firings next year anyway, as a minimum.
The 3rd stage problems can be resolved without real firings tests, i.e. on ground testbeds, so I would not be totally pessimistic.
It’s their first all-Russian, solid propelled and not monstrous SLBM, with a lot from Bark, Topol-M and other programmes, with an overboosted first stage and tremendous acceleration rate – and the 3rd stage/bus is quite amazing. No wonder it will fail and fail and fail better.
I personnaly don’t expect it to enter service in 2009 – more like 2010 but who cares.
RSM55A couple of questions about FOBS.
1) Was it ever deployed? I think I read somewhere that the USSR did have this capability for a while. Did the USA ever?
It was deployed – but only as a regiment strong force, from roughly 1970 till 1983. Meaning up to 18 dedicated silos in Baikonur and other sites in the RSFSR proper were declared operational, the missiles were not declared operational till the mid 70s, and then went on alert duty.
The US never did have an operational FOBS system either – some putative Titan II variants were thought about but were eventually killed by the various arms reduction/weapons in space treaties, like the Soviet programme.
In any case, Google helps a lot 😉
2) Could current in service ICBM’s/SLBM’s be able to follow that specific flight profile without modification?
Officially – no. On the other hand, dynamic characteristics of the SS-18 or Trident II, for example, allow for some speculation about potential orbital injection. In any case, it would mean dramatically reducing the MIRV numbers.
RSM55True, it’s not Sukhoy project – It is Mikoyan project. True, it’s not PAK FA – It is LFI. And yes, it is LAST variant of MIG-LFI.
No, it simply is not.
This drawing has appeared after Michael Pogosjan became(not so long ago) director of Mikoyan-Gurevich buro.
That does not prove anything.
Paralay and his source(s) do a great compilation and perspective-oriented job, but they are getting more and more unreliable due to their overt enthusiasm that somewhat impedes on their analytical skills.
RSM55Mr. Karnad also revealed that India is negotiating for purchase of TU-160 Black Jacks from Russia. He could be right; Russian Air Force did display Tu-160s with their capability to get their job done over Indian Ocean during Indo-Russian Naval Exercises (INDRA).
As the French say: “n’importe quoi”. I.e. wishful thinking bordering on BS.
In any case, thanks for the article and the link – all in all it does indeed contain some very interesting info
It will be interesting to know more data on the BrahMos-2. Perhaps, as Yakhont was used as a base to develop the BrahMos, Meteorit will be used as a platform to develop the BrahMos-2. :dev2:
Meteorit is a failed and outdated design, and has been partially de-classified.
Brahmos-2 or whatever it will be called is not based on Meteorit technologies.
Currently the problem is that the Indians are pushing the Russians to field Yakhont/Brahmos missiles to a surface combatant, what the Russians adamantly don’t want to do (they see it primarily as a weapon that might suit the Severodvinsk class as an interim weapon before the fielding of the future ASM replacing Granit/Yakhont, but no surface ship). Privately, some Russians officers speak very derogatorly about the Brahmos suitability for their own navy.
RSM55The MiGs will be donated and they are not SMTs, and not ex-Algerian.
What the Russians get in return, I’ll let you guess 😉
RSM55Any source or confirmation for that statement ???
Deino
It’s a bad drawing of one of early MiG’s LFI variants, that was killed after it hit the paper in the late 90’s.
It’s not PAK FA, it’s not even Sukhoi, and it’s not even the last variant of the LFI.
RSM55[QUOTE=Stonewall;1336040]Any info if it is one of these??? :
No, it can’t be: they are heraldically wrong.
If the colors have to follow the pattern of the state flag, red has to border on blue, blue has to border on white (which way is irrelevant). Russia doesn’t have a red-white-blue flag.
Therefore, number 1 is plain wrong, number 2 less so, but then it is unclear why one needs an additional red border.
And both look EXTREMELY ugly.
RSM55Actually Yes.
Well, I don’t have the last operational maintenance costs protocols of the glorious Northern Fleet handy 😎 , so if you have a source vindicating or supporting or statement, I would be grateful (seriously).
RSM55Back to the thread subject:
A bountyful of Tochka-U launches, including quite a beautiful double simultaneous one, filmed on a cellphone camera by a (yet 🙂 ) unknown Russian serviceman during the 5-days war:
RSM55So, RSM55, in the end, it seems that build a brand new Borei is cheaper than converting a Typhoon, right?
Converting a Typhoon into a Bulava carrier (or any other SLBM) – definitely yes.
Converting it into a Kalibr/Granat/Uran carrier – definitely no (ok, one can argue about the Uran).
Introducing a new SLBM as an operational system on a sub that was not designed for it is (in the case of the Typhoon) extremely expensive. They would have to change a lot of the inner architecture, introduce a all-new BIUS, fire controls, special launch systems and hermetic canisters etc etc. The experimental launch silo for the Bulava installed on the Donskoy is not an operational item in terms of military availability: it is basically a launch silo of a Bulava specially fitted into the existing silo. The fire controls are provisional as well and are not integrated into the all-ship BIUS. I.e. one can use this ship as a trials platform all right, but never in an operational or wartime environment.
Cruise missiles, on the other hand, can be fitted into existing universal cells, that can be in turn installed into the existing launch silos without lowering survavibility and operationality requirements. They are also much less dependent on new on-board fire controls, as they can get their launch IDS and flight path calibration from other assets, even after launch (satcom, satnav, aerials, airborne control posts).
One of the reasons the Typhoons were withdrawn was that they were incredibly expensive to maintain.
Actually, not really – they are even less expensive to operate and maintain as any given Delta. Their fate was (almost) sealed due to political and economic reasons, and because some of the crucial components (i.e. the missiles) were not produced anymore, without any replacement possible.
The most expensive subs in the maintenance and operation sense are the Oscars.
RSM55There is no point in talking to some one who cannot back up anything he has ever said.
Well then back up your point: There is a search tool on the forum, use it and find something I’ve said that I can’t back up.
As for SLBMs The Sagarika will be operational by 2010. And a submarine launched version of Agni 3 a few years later.
And here you go again… 😉
I hope to see you here when it does. 😀
I’m always in for a good bet 🙂
This is one of the main reasons I am against any joint R&D like the PAK FA. So that every dick tom and harry will come and say its all Russian without a single link to back up his claim with.
Listen, if you don’t want to talk, that’s fine, but at least read what I just wrote (2 times): I don’t say that a) everything India develops is Russian b) everything India builds is crap – I just said that they are not ready for serial production – unlike the Chinese defense industry. Got it?
Mr. RSM55 can you please point out how the Astra has nothing to do with Indian R&D
The seeker and control systems are a joint venture between the Russkies and the Frenchies. DRDO acts as a system integrator and licenced producer.
The blueprint and specs for the propulsion system was supplied by a Russian company. The propellant composition is European and was supplied by a German joint venture.
All in all, I agree the “D” in “R&D” has a lot of Indian participation.
Serial production will be Indian 100% of course, when it happens. I wish them good luck, it’s a very capable missile and has very good perspectives when/if it reaches production stage.
RSM55What a load of crap.
I know it hurts, but it’s called “truth”…
The Indigenous assault rifles or INSAS have replaced most of the rifles in the army inventory.
1. I was not talking about the poor “enhanced” copy of the AK-47 2. “Most rifles” is a very, very overt exaggeration.
I will not got into specifics for the following points and only invite you to pay a little attention to some linguistic features and ponder about it:
The Arjun…will enter service…IAC project and ATV…will be operational…The Akash…will be inducted…LCA…will be in IAF service in next decade…
The same is true with the Astra BVR missiles
That’s plain wrong. Besides, the Astra owes almost nothing to Indian R&D.
Indian missile program is doing very well and 3/4 of China is under the range of the Agni platforms.
Talk was about mobile platforms and SLBMs. Even Pakistan and North Korea have managed to build ballistic missiles. It’s not rocket science anymore. 😀
The PAD and AAD ballistic missile systems are the first of its kind in Asia and we have beaten the Chinese to implementing Ballistic missile shield.
Neither the PAD nor the mythical AAD are anything near operational and never will be. Talking about a “missile shield” is sheer nonsense.
When the United States forced Russia to stop supplying Cryogenic engines to our space programme our scientists developed their own.
Another victim of inter-Indian propaganda? :confused: Tell my what parts in the cryo stage of the DSLV is “their own” and when/how the US “stopped” anything being exported to India.
India’s mission to the moon cost a quarter of what it cost the Chinese and Japanese.
Yes, because it was much less demanding in terms of payload and experiment density, and no because it’s not a quarter, but rather 40%.
At least do some research before bashing other countries. :rolleyes::cool:
Same to you thank you 😀 Doing research is something I’m paid for, actually. And don’t be mistaken, I have a tremendous amount of respect for Indian engineering and capacities, I just said that they are, for the moment, not ready to produce anything you’ve listed as a series. Period.
RSM55Is the “including UFOs” part an official statement? I know Russia and (even the former Sov. U) has/had a more open minded approach to tho the phenomenon than the U.S has/had, but..
In Russia, the UFO term does not have the same “spooky” connotation as in the US or elsewhere. The “U” therefore means what it means – be it a Raptor or Aurora or anything that flies, is low observable and cannot be identified by other means…But of course, it’s also an example of poor journalism…
RSM55As I correctly predicted on here months ago in the face of fanboy opposition from the likes of echonine.
It was a silly idea in the first place anyway.
I bet nobody thought about the cost and the complexity of installing a new SLBM system on a sub that was not designed for it.
The news is actually not “sad” at all: in the article above, the Russians say that they might re-arm the couple of Typhoons left with cruise missiles and for spec ops – like the USN did with its “surplus” Ohio. That’s much less expensive (universal containers, independent guidance) than transfrom them into Bulava carriers.
I wonder how many Kh-555 one could squeeze into a Typhoon 😀
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