Trawled this little lot up for you to peruse.

http://john-dillon.co.uk/V-Force/green_satin.html

And you may find this one of interest too.

http://www.tatjavanvark.nl/tvve/dduck0.html

Distinct recollections of years too final retirement being a hot topic around the time the engines were being hoisted in again, lots of calculations being used as the members of the then forum discussed in minute detail the number of hour per year, engine change outs, rotations and how many or how few to get too the general consensus that 558 would be flying for around 10+ years…..However, although the Mod 2222 was discussed at length and a lot of input from the engineers was made at that time, little if any intimation was given regarding the further Mod requirements needed to ensure that 558 reached this magic figure, Though it was mentioned in passing, seems to have been one of those ‘Things we should have told them but choose not too’ along with the comparison figures for the Airframe TI…One wonders why???

Ok, would someone like too explain how come this future mod 2429 has been kept so quiet to date????

The whole area north along the coast for several miles is a maze of current and disused facilities, the whole southern section was serviced by it’s own railway network which has access to the former BR network just south of Shoeburyness Railway station were it crossed the High street and followed the line of Gunners road into the current DERA facility, it then proceeded on spreading through a number of branch lines covering a number of dispersed sites South of the creek.

A single line crossed the Havengore creek alongside what is now Bridge road into the Northern section of the site, again splitting off into a number of service lines to various dispersed sites as far up Courtsend though drawn up, I have my doubts that this section was actually laid overall there was possibly some thirty miles of laid track inside the sites boundaries. Today with the dismantling of the bridge only the sections out too the DERA facility remain in use though large sections can still be seen on GA beyond this.

Sadly my original survey maps of the area stretching back in time many decades and collected by my Grandfather were waterlogged in a flood and have been badly damaged with only a few notes on the remaining track layout being salvageable but I do recall several hefty volumes of planning notes regarding servicing the various munitions facilities on the sites in ‘Times of Hostilities’ what ever that meant, they were extreme in detail and included information on the holding capacity of the stores, handling instructions and train formations all gravely annotated with dire warnings about the security of the contained information, I never did find out how he came to have these documents and maps but they were of great significance to him.

What and whatever could have been done otherwise with the money David I think all here understand your concerns and the reasoning behind them however the task at hand until we are told otherwise is to operate 558 on the air show circuit and provide an educational programme that will benefit the younger element with historical fact on the Cold war ect.

I don’t know how many of you are members of the VTST club or how many have membership of Pprune or UKAS but if you had been following all of these in detail the last 48 hours have thrown up a number of issues that possibly might shed some light on what is actually going on with the TVOC and how deep these current feelings run among the community at large and those closely associated with the project.

My own stance is and has always been that the project has merit but is currently being run by people who on the face of things have lost control of the situation leaving it too blunder from one crises too the next while unable to change the course they themselves have charted for it, however it has been plain from the outset that such a project was going to cost millions over it’s lifetime too conclude and it has also been plainly obvious that the public at large has not understood this applying considerable pressure too the TVOC to perform in a matter of months what they would have been better doing over a number of years, this has led to questionable decisions being made in haste regarding the financial operation of the company leaving them unable too plan a forward budget that is workable within the confines of available contributions.

As such in my opinion the board of trustees has failed to uphold it’s remit and should have place it on hold several months ago until they could with confidence ensure the financial health of the company, that we currently have a working airframe is irrelevant to the discussion as without the finance MA will not consider returning too the project and the TVOC engineering staff are not legally entitled too do anymore than Anti-Dets as things stand 558 will never gain a Permit to fly or appear at an air show.

Sadly therefore I must conclude that the project should be suspended and the airframe be placed under volunteer care and maintenance until such time as a viable financial package can be constructed to restart the project at some point in the future if at all possible, I think we have all expected to much from the whole affair.

Read all of this thread with great interest but the one thing that comes through clearly is the divergent views on what constitutes a heritage aircraft, we see on a regular basis nations claiming provenance of certain airframes yet clearly they have none, bodies organising legal campaigns to retain airframes yet they cannot lay before a court even the most meagre evidence of heritage of any form.

As someone that has great interest in the historical significance of aviation I find increasingly hard too understand why this problem has not been debated in past years and rules laid down that would allow the provenance of an item or airframe to be established on an international basis, but I would however add that in doing so these artefacts must have historical significance within the context of international aviation and establish were the heritage really lies. The Wright flyer, monoplane and jet engine for instance are significant historical milestones in aviation, the history they produced would in my view be regarded as historical fact which once recorded that record could be called an artefact suitable for permanent preservation while the airframes themselves might not.

Quirky thinking you might say but look at the historical time line for say the P51, mediocre airframe not really amounting too much until someone had the bright idea of changing out the Alison for a Merlin with which it found a niche in the requirements of the allied forces, had it not been for this lucky train of events the P51 would never have reached the heady heights of international fame it did and would have been consigned to history as just another airframe as in reality it was just another design. And there lays the point of the matter at hand, what is an artefact, what does it consist of, the item, the history or the perception of the public at large, the first stone axe would in my opinion be a historical artefact, but the next one produced would be nothing more than a facsimile so in the absence of the original could you say the one you had was of historical significance, doubtful as it is only a copy, the first one meant something, was a historical creation of a new technology but the next was not.

Extending this too Aviation would leave the place very barren as in truth there have been no more than a few such historical milestones to mark over a hundred years of flight, so it is down to public opinion as to what is a historical aviation artefact, hence the reason folks flock to venues to watch a P51 idle backwards and forwards for a few minutes, interesting possibly but of far more interest is the gun camera footage that these aircraft created and the written records of those that flew them at a time when they really meant something, those in my humble opinion are the real artefacts.

Took a look on Google, can’t say anything around Belem resembles a PBY at all but I may have missed something.

As a regular contributor too the TVOC forum since it’s creation and a member I watched the forum police become increasingly anal about the content being posted though at times some of the personal bickering between certain members needed cutting out I do suspect that threads were clipped as a damage limitation exercise, the final decision too close it too all but members probably had it’s roots there and remains a great mistake.

The TVOC has always been very miserly in the information it has broadcast though it has been my experience that the best way to entice them to say anything pertinent at all is too call them direct and ask as they were never known to answer questions via the forum, even though this was the most direct line of communication with the general interested public.

As too the flying/display side of things, here again they have not been very forthcoming over time leading to a general feeling that 558 could possibly be expected too fly on a regular basis once the test flight series had been completed, I suspect that in truth even with major sponsorship on board she will fly very little during the season possibly four or five displays at best and then only at the major venues as the cost involved will be so high that few but the largest air shows will be able to justify the charges involved.

While I am pleased that a Vulcan has again flown and it will I am certain complete the test phase of it’s return to flight to gain a Permit to fly, I have grave doubts that the final outcome will please the thousands of members of the public that have supported and contributed financially too the project over the years and that this support has only produced in effect a very expensive semi-static exhibit, occasionally flown and in a continual state of financial crisis until finally retired. adverts or not.