As I understand it first steel will be laid down in January of 2009. That maybe when first steel is cut too (I dunno :o). The half year before then will be filled with orders for parts and preparing the assembaly areas. Does No.1 dock at Rosyth still need widening or has that been done now?

Back on topic (CVF)

Has anyone mentioned the four 250t lifts that have been ordered for CVF?

The Hawk uses one Ardour to the Jaguar’s two. Could the next trainer cum light fighter use a single EJ200 to the Typhoon’s two?

Energy Resourse Independence

I would like to see tidal barrages in the Bristol Channel and Pentland Firth providing 10% of our energy needs. Nuclear power – another 40%. Wind and wave could realistically provide a further 10% of the whole in ten years time.

Ask yourselves this, exactly how much ‘on the spot’ capability do you think anything short of an Absalon is actually going to provide?

Well a 320t to 450t (full load) Standard Flex 300 can do quite a lot:

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/fly/

Also known as Standard Flex 300 (SF300), the Flyvefisken Class is based on a modular concept – using a standard hull with containerised weapon systems and equipment, which allows the vessel to change role quickly for surveillance, surface combat, anti-submarine warfare (ASW), mine countermeasures / minehunter, minelayer or pollution control. Standard equipment for all roles includes the command system, radars and hull-mounted sonars.

Now given a glass-reinforced plastic hull of 2500t or steel hull of 3500t with an LM2500 or MT30 you could look for all those features, but with generally more punch.

As well as a 76mm Oto Melara Super Rapid gun maybe you could have options for an 155mm main gun or two 57mm bofors or some other CIWS.

Instead of ESSM you could have CAMM or even Aster15.

Instead of Thales Underwater Systems (formerly Thomson Marconi Sonar) IBIS 43 data handling system and Thales Underwater Systems 2054 side scan sonars and two remotely controlled mine identification and disposal vehicles you could have…

well you get the idea. Things could be big and good on a larger modular multi-role vessel still much smaller than the Absalon class.

Think Artigliere to Thetis size for C3. A heavy corvette or light frigate. MEKO A-200 Class is another example of what would work well as a starting point for this design.

After that Iranian RG incident I’m looking for multi helicopter support from new builds, but C3 would have to be limited to one.

True, but if the commerical power sector opens up a new nuclear program (and everybody in that industry, me included, thinks it inevitable) then the nuclear engineering side of things can stay alive on commerical work. Yes, I know a power station PWR isn’t a reactor for a sub, but a lot of the manufacturing requirements, support infrastructure, fuel processing, clean up etc. skills would have a huge amount of cross over. And SSK’s would maintain the actual hull and systems base. However, like I say I support SSK’s as additional to the nuke boats, not to replace them.

I suspect I read something in defence committee minutes along the lines that civilian nuclear power and conventional subs weren’t enough to maintain nuclear boat build capability. Since you are talking about in addition to the one nuclear sub every 22 months, I welcome any work that is justifiable strategically (we really need the subs) and that doesn’t mess up the drumbeat. A sudden start then stop in conventional sub orders could cause small contractors to over expand to meet the demand and put themselves out of business, when the work dries up.

The US wishes to be a global hegemonic super power and intends to maintain that status, thus having taken that decision it spends to it. So why place an onus on the UK to justify ‘peacetime’ defence spending when to the US it isirrelevant?

Iran is handled perfectly well by existing budgets and alliance structures 😮 You aren’t british or you wouldn’t be so ignorant of the UK armed forces problems. Chinese?

and it has yet to be explained why Russia and China are a threat. Did you hear about Russia (only the state has access to polonium) killing a UK citizen in London? Have you heard the Putin speech calling for six carrier groups? China is such a raw nerve for you I won’t lift the blinkers.

So yes you have yet to provide any genuine threat scenario that requires a significant increase in defence spending. While you decide whether a threat is genuine we shall always be surprised by the onset of hostilities. What amounts to a genuine threat scenario in your book? What you describe as a significant increase in defence spending, I see as the reversal of a significant cut in defence spending to a typical peacetime level of 3% of GDP. Pretty conservative considering our overseas commitments at present.

I have nothing to learn from you becouse you have nothing to teach, Now I really respect you 😉

you are unable to substantiate any of your significant arguments and have offered no viable argument. Are my arguments significant or inviable? It is you, sir, who have failed to substantiate your claims that China has peaceful intentions. Please specify which arguments you require substantiating and in what way.

It is not a case that I have ignored you, it is that I have rebutted every single thing that you say. A contradiction is not a rebuttal. I have not claimed that you have ignore me, but that you have ignored points by dismissing them as irrelevant.

At the end of it you still have your wish list but no reason why it should be fulfilled. My wish list? Could you refer me back to that one? I think you are painting my argument as something it is not. A straw man is easily defeated.

Your post suggests that AQ is a proxy of Iran, No it doesn’t. I don’t mention AQ nor imply AQ are linked to Iran in any way.

that is simply not true and suggests that you are either grossly uninformed or a liar, at this stage I can not comment on which. This was just another straw man to attack me rather than the argument

I am persisting, in spite of the personal attacks because this issue is important and I am hoping that open minds might consider it. Please address the issue not me.