Hi John.
I heard about Britain having very little forest left. This is pretty sad but with your very high population density I guess it would be hard to increase the forests significantly.
In France we still have a significant amount of forest left, fortunately, but I don’t know the exact the percentage.
We won’t enter in an endless discussion about global warming, but anyways this Eden program is a big success. In the last 6 months they have planted 17 million trees.
Hiring very poor people to plant trees is a simple and effective idea. And their program has little overhead.
I said in my first post that NGOs are often politicized, but it is true that many are still good. In the US for instance they have the Nature Conservancy which has a good reputation.
Hi John.
I heard about Britain having very little forest left. This is pretty sad but with your very high population density I guess it would be hard to increase the forests significantly.
In France we still have a significant amount of forest left, fortunately, but I don’t know the exact the percentage.
We won’t enter in an endless discussion about global warming, but anyways this Eden program is a big success. In the last 6 months they have planted 17 million trees.
Hiring very poor people to plant trees is a simple and effective idea. And their program has little overhead.
I said in my first post that NGOs are often politicized, but it is true that many are still good. In the US for instance they have the Nature Conservancy which has a good reputation.
I’m sure the allied generals dismissed the idea of concentrated tank formations out of hand. the Germans didn’t, the rest is history
seems the Chinese have a similar idea
in a BVR air battle over the straight of Taiwan this would be formidable weapon, like a cheap MALD, it would give the Chinese a screen to hide behind, something to deplete the US’s and Taiwan’s missile reserves. certainly the US fighters train to engage at maximum range, but as soon as they run out of missiles they’ll have to fall back or start dogfighting with more numerous and manouverable Chinese fighters. it reminds of the battle of Kursk, where superior German tanks lost to numbers at short range
They could indeed try to do something like that, and even the F-35s might be unable to identify the targets at long range. The F-35 carries a limited number of missied so their weapon magazine would be quickly depleted.
a QF-16 could balance such a situation, it can fly at the front, carry a large number of missiles to engage at maximum range, while flying extreme manoeuvres to dodge incoming attacks, depleting the opposing missile reserves. then it could fly back to re-arm, or fly on and act as a forward observer
It might be a good idea, simulations would have to be made to see how to best use these F-16 UCAVs. At least A QF-16 would be cheap and expendable compared to a new build stealthy UCAV. Even if the QF-16 is shot down, the enemy would have expended a few missiles against it. This would compensate for the missile number inferiority that the USAF fighters would have.
unfortunally no company has ever built anything close to a dogfighting/missile platform UCAV, so we have no real example of how effective this would be
The technology is probably there to remote control an a2a UCAV from another fighter. The QF-16 could be used as a bomb truck too.
The idea of using the F-16 as a UCAV has been proposed several times.
In the 90’s they had proposed a rewinged F-16:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]236910[/ATTACH]
This one would be particularily good for CAS.
Another study had been done in 2000.
I believe a few years ago the USAF also said they might be interested in an F-16 UCAV to be used as mules for the stealth planes. The USAF has hundreds of retired F-16Cs and as the F-16 progressively gets retired, there won’t be not enough pilots for them if they are reactivated. The QF-16 could maybe be the basis for such a variant.
The F-22 is light grey below and has 2 shades of grey on top. Google for images with both the F-35 and the F-22 ( there are many ), the F-35 is somewhat darker on top ( roughly the same color as the dark grey tone of the F-22 ) and significantly darker below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDupbNrpEfE
Significant difference in the picures here.
Interesting, I always thought painting an entire plane with RAM was considered not cost effective, at least for a plane that is not designed to be stealthy. Will all the F-16s be upgraded?
I believe the super hornet has RAM only for precise areas, it doesn’t seem to have that kind of color paint anywhere. Also the F-22 made by LM is light grey.
So does it have to be dark grey? If the F-22s are upgraded with the F-35’s RAM coating, will they become dark grey?
The F-18 is hard to see visually with its light grey paint. I saw one a couple years ago fly overhead, and I really noticed that it was hard to keep track of.
I don’t understand why they made the F-35 is so much darker. Is it because they expect it to operate mainly at night and stay in BVR? Even the F-22 is light grey…
Anything MAY happen but the assertion that the UCLASS being developed (hopefully) will be able to do everything form ISR, to light to heavy strike, to air to air combat is a pipe dream. Lets get back when the USN decides to commit something more than the 2-3 Billion it plans on spending on the program.
2-3 billion is not much. But the UCLASS, even if it is relatively basic, will give the USN a good first experience with UCAVs.
Then they are not making sense. The UCLASS is an ISR+Light strike platform, where the strike capability can move up or down depending upon the ultimate RFP that is expected early next year.
The FA-XX AOA would not even have been completed when the UCLASS RFP is issued. The requirement for the FA-XX is in the “2030’s” while the UCLASS is supposed to be on the carrier deck by 2022-23.
There is no reason why a UCLASS should be asked to possess capabilities and qualities, to conduct a mission that they themselves have not defined yet (AOA, FA-XX). Talk about setting oneself up for failure!
They are only now studying potential capabilities and timeframes for the FA-XX.
They’ll try to get a revolutionary capability, they have a lot of analysis work to do about the future capabilities of unmanned systems.
With processing power increasing exponentially, the F/A-XX might evolve during its service life from a manned fighter with limited secondary a/g and a/a capabilities in UCAV mode, to a full UCAV. The saving in operational costs would be enormous.
Thats for a vehicle that is to be in testing around 2020-2022 timeframe. What they are referring to is the future of air-combat. The FA-XX AOA won’t finish for some time still. This concept, is not restricted to the 2022 UCLASS.
No one is saying for sure or 100% that the UCLASS will be the answer to all USN Strike aircraft needs. Heck the FA-XX has not even officially concluded. They do not even know what combat performance a vehicle that replaces the SH will have. The UCLASS that is to be fielded in the early 2020’s won’t be designed around this. This is something they want in the 2030’s.
In the article posted before they were really talking about the UCLASS. In another article I read yesterday about the same topic, they were talking about the UCLASS too.
The concept might be reused on the next gen planes if they have an unmanned capability of course.
Doesn’t have to support in all scenarios. There are plenty of scenarios where it can be of use. Again, they are likely to have far more detailed simulation and capability and performance (what is doable) data then you or I. If they are looking into this I am fairly certain that it does have some utility. The ACC has done such studies as well in the past.
Agreed bring_it_on. In some scenario, one might imagine how a subsonic UCAV could be of use. For instance, in the case of a strike package attacking a target, the planes are anyways flying in subsonic, so the UCLASS could be positionned ahead of the package to take early AMRAAM shots.
For CAP also, the autonomy of the UCLASS would allow patrolling far from the carrier for 2-3 times longer than a fighter. The UCLASS would be controlled by the E-2 in that case I guess.
Its not going to cost significantly more than the F-35C. Secondly its operational cost would be we’ll OPERATIONAL cost and not training cost (that would be an insignificant overall cost). The predators flew 90% of their total sorties in combat. And this is with 1 million hour worth of data (70,000+ sorties). The cost of the vehicle is absolutely irrelevant given what you spend on the thing over its life. Then take into account that drones have already surpassed 20K flight hours on the airframe so you are dealing with greater than 2:1 compared to a Navy fighter.
The F-35C will benefit from the economy of scale of the other variants. Right now about 40 F-35s are built per year, and the F-35C costs 129 million URFC. The UCLASS will be build in much lower numbers and the airframe will be larger, so I kind of doubt its unit cost would be lower than 130 million, which makes it a high value target. A lighter UCAV akin to an X-47/neuron, on another hand, would be more expendable.
It is true that if an F-35 is destroyed and the pilot killed, it would take time and ressources to retrain another pilot.
The F-35 allows cooperative engagements, and keep in mind it will not forever remain with an internal load out of 4 weapons. Even the ACC Boss last year spoke of the need to increase magazine depth and its fairly reasonable to assume that this is one area where the ADI is concentrating on.
In general trying to spare missiles might not be such a good idea. If the plane launches 2 missiles instead of one, at least he is sure that his second missile will be launched to try and kill something, whereas if he tries to spare that missile, he might well be shot down before even having the opportunity to shoot it. Also, the risk of being attacked and shot down increases drastically as soon as it is detected, so it might make sense to ripple fire before that happens.
The ability to launch 6 AMRAAMs is rather straighforward and they have large numbers of them. So they could start with that. The NGM will probably be compatible with this dual launcher.
We do not know what the current UCLASS carries. The Current UCLASS also doesn’t have to be an air to air missile carrier. They aren’t going to develop everything from an ISR assets, to strike and now air to air for $2.5 Billion over 5 years.
Its not a case of either F-35 or UCLASS. He was speaking of the future. Think 2030 and beyond, not the early 2020’s when the UCLASS in its first iteration is likely to appear.
They still don’t know what they want apparently. Some like the idea of a stealthy bomb truck, others would prefer small bays and more range with more focus on ISR.
It seems they are more inclined towards the second alternative now. If they chose that path, it won’t be possible to enlarge the bays later and turn it to a bomb/missile truck.
He is not talking about the UCLASS conducting intercepts, he is talking of cooperative engagements, something that the current F-35’s already are capable of. Instead of launching a weapon and having your wingman update it for example, you can get in closer, and target the drone a few nm back to launch the weapon while you are at altitude and out of harm’s way for the update. Also it allows aircrafts with mixed loads to stay in the fight longer. Of course the CONOPS would be evaluated as to what is the best way to do these sorts of cooperative engagements, but there has been some thought put into this by the various authorities including the ACC.
This sort of thing is precisely what the ADI was to look at.
I see well, but a2a engagements are very reactive and dynamic. The subsonic UCLASS could become a burden for the fast planes.
Also a problem is that the missile’s flight time from the UCLASS would be much longer than from the F-35s which would be closer to the targets. If the UCLASS stays dozens of km behind, the extra flight time would be in the order of 30 seconds or more, which is very long. Or the UCLASS would have to be armed with a very fast missile, which would cost more.
However, the UCLASS could be used to guide the missiles launched from the F-35s. The UCLASS would stay like 100km behind and would use its AESAs ( possibly side arrays ) to give the F-35s an excellent 360 degrees SA. The F-35s could launch accurately, and disengage immediately because the UCLASS would guide the missiles with its powerfull radar.
Another usage would be to use the fighters to intercept the incoming planes before they launch their ASM missiles, and use the UCLASS to intercept the missiles with its AMRAAMs. An AMRAAM being much less expensive than a long range SAM like the SM-6, that would be cost effective. And this way the UCLASS wouldn’t take much risk.
First of all there is no indication of the cost being $150 Million for the UCAS (That cost came from the RFI which sought ORBITS that were to cost $150 Million or less. One orbit would usually mean multiple vehicles). But lets assume a cost at parity with the F-35C. Even then the LCC cost is next to nothing. The UCLASS does not need to fly 300 hours (for a few decades) a year to maintain proficiency, nor does it need to be an 8000 airframe hour vehicle (think 15-20K).
Be realistic, it is going to be much larger than the F-35C ( possibly up to twice as big ) , will have a very sophisticated sensor suite, and will be built in much lower numbers. It would be surprising if it didn’t cost significantly more. Its operating cost would be much less, especially its cost per flying hour of course.
Ripple fire was a tactic western fighter (NATO) pilots trained in with as well, especially with the fire and forget AMRAAM.
It seems, from the informations that have come out, that the F-35’s software is done in such a way that one target is not attacked be 2 missiles at the same time. The F-35 doesn’t carry many missiles, so they want to spare them, which may not be such a good idea. If it had more missiles, it could do double shots at like 10 seconds intervals to keep the target attacked constantly until it is shot down. Ripple firing would deny the enemy the ability to take his own missile shot.
The UCLASS is likely to have bays smaller than the F-35, so it would carry at most 4-6 missiles. Is it worth it to risk a 150million asset that is not optimized for interception for only 4-6 missiles? It would make much more sense to try and fit the F-35 with 6 internal AMRAAMs, thousands of planes in the end would benefit from the invesment.
The UCLASS might be designed to have a self defense capability with 2 missiles however. It’s not much but for self defense it’s not that bad. The multirole NGM would be well suited for it.
i dont know whether DAS can triangulated or not, but at least it give pilot some warning when enemy fighter coming from behind or if some AA gun fire at F-35, by contrast, for other fighters that is not equipped with similar system to DAS, if enemy some how silently get behind them, then they will be shot down very easy ( by cannon)
No doubt that the DAS combined with the HMD is a very good system, but other next generation planes are likely to get similar ones.
You’re trying to use a worst-case scenario to invalidate a capability that will be used in the average case.
btw, If the whether is bad, how are the F-35s being detected with IR?
It would be detected by radar in that case, but it still remains that in some part of the world the weather is bad for month or even throughout the year. So forget triangulating with the DAS/EOTS.
Also, Since the use of radar will alert the F-35s that someone is approaching from behind (long before they themselves are detected by that radar), why did they not take the appropriate action instead of stumbling along keeping their rears pointed to the enemy?
If the weather is good in that case and the enemy plane attacks from behind he doesn’t need his radar. He will detect the F-35s from much further than the F-35s can detect it with its DAS.
There are all sorts of cases that are not that rare in which the F-35 wouldn’t have much of an advantage.
It would depend on the relative speed when they cross each other I guess. Maybe if they merge in subsonic the missile would have a few km of range. If they merge in supersonic mmh…
I think a missile with a bigger motor like say a MICA-IR would do better for that scenario.