Also in mid June ‘e’s came to 302/308/317 Sqns.
(…)
It is also possible that, until the ‘e’ had proven itself, some ‘c’ were retained, but the general intention was homogeneity within a squadron (in fact, within a wing).
Well, doesn’t seem to apply to 131 Wing (302/308/317). They did exchange their whole set of LF.IXs in early to mid-June 1944 but those of the new ones that I have seen photos of were all ‘c’ wing, not ‘e’ wing.
Mark12 has once pointed out the two modifications introduced about the same time in 1944:
Mod 1029: ‘To introduce 2 x.5″ guns in lieu of the 4 x.303″ guns’.
Mod 1209: ‘To introduce fixed parts for the wing bomb scheme’.
Due to similarity of numbers these are likely to be confused. I believe the exchange of LF.IXs in 131 Wing (with seemingly identical ones) was connected with Mod 1209, not 1029.
No. 405 A.R.F. (…) Aircraft Repair Flight
Are you sure this is correct? I have 405 ARF as Aircraft Reception Flight. I think repairs were handled by RSUs (Repair and Salvage Units).
what could an Aircraft Repair Flight do which an M.U. couldn’t
What an MU could do depended very much on the actual MU in question. Some MUs handled repairs, some did overseas crating/uncrating, and some were just storage units without staff or equipment for any kind of repair/assembly/disassembly operations. “RAF Flying Training and Support Units” by the late Ray Sturtivant and John Hamlin is a recommended source here.
mod 820 (Outboard cannon front mounting – removal)
Do you have a copy of that?
The one item which was mandatory for wing bomb installation was the stronger (4-spoke, presumably) wheel and tyre
Presumably not. Most 1944 photos of Spitfire LF.IXs with wing bomb carriers show 5-spoke wheels.
The impression, maybe, but it isn’t right. What it means is that the Air Min had already decided that, since there was no real difference in performance, it was an LF.IX whether it had a Merlin 66 or a 266- much as an LF.V could have a 45M or a 50M or a 55M. But there were some installational differences, and possibly (I’m still a little vague on this!) some differences in tool-kit required, so those uppity folks that actually had to deal with such issues pressed their point.
I don’t really think it was for technical reasons. Differences in engine installations of the various Mk Vs were no less than those between Mk IX and XVI. But, Packard Merlins were delivered under Lend-Lease Act which put important limitations on what the Crown was able to do with them if not used by the RAF. Note that after the war Mk IXs (all-British made) were sold worldwide, while Mk XVIs (with the Lend-Lease engines) were retained in RAF use. The only country to actually buy ex-RAF Mk XVIs was Greece which used a lot of the US military funding anyway.
Isn’t the ‘b’ cannon port part external to the wing skin? Looking at some photos recently I thought I could see it as the outer layer. The ‘c’ piece is internal.
Exactly! The “Mk IX wings built with Mk Vb front castings” theory seems to have been born from the “Mk IXB” designation in some documents. However, “Mk IXB” had nothing to do with the armament installation. It was an ad hoc informal name given at unit level to the “new” Mk IX as opposed to the “old” one before the official designation of “LF.IX” was introduced. I can’t see a reasonable way of using the Mk VB-style cannon chimney pot with the Mk VC-style cannon installation.
Cees,
Sorry about the delay.
I’ve now replied to your pm.
V
We’ll see in a couple of weeks, I guess.
And even newer colours.
The ZF-U codes of 308 Squadron were selected for an air display during the Air Picnic at the Polish Aviation Museum in Cracow (last weekend) because the event was attended by Jerzy Glowczewski (92), a veteran who had flown similarly marked and coded Spitfire on 1 January 1945 when he claimed a FW190 over Ghent.
TE184 was brought to Poland for this occasion by Jacek Mainka, the first Pole ever to fly a Spitfire into and in Poland.
Jacek’s late grandfather, Ryszard Kwiatkowski, was a mechanic with 303 and 308 Squadrons during the war and saw Glowczewski off in ZF-U for that mission.
All three photos ©Milosz Rusiecki
I think it’s obvious that the terms ‘Germans’, ‘Americans’, ‘Russians’, ‘British’, ‘French’, ‘Japanese’ etc. cover all of the people of those nations and, naturally, today mostly include people who were not yet born in WW2, and therefore blaiming them for any attrocity, or praising them for any heroism of their compatriots from those times is not justified. However, it is an interesting thing that when we discuss WW2 we seem to have no problem calling the Japanese, Russians, Yanks, Brits, Italians, Frenchmen or Poles by their nationality (whether it’s their brave deeds or nasty things they did), but when it comes to the Third Reich it’s usually ‘Nazis’ rather than any particular nation.
An interesting observation…..but then not all ‘Nazis’ were German; wasn’t Adolf Hitler technically Austrian?
Well, IIRC ‘Nazi’ is short for the lengthy name of the party that ruled Germany at the time, also known by the acronym NSDAP, and the D in that name was for ‘Deutsche’. I believe you had to declare yourself (and be accepted) as a German to become a ‘Nazi’, whatever your ‘technical nationality’.
Speaking of ‘technical nationalities’, John Stower, one of those murdered after the Great Escape, was born and raised in Argentina, and for people there (those who care about history, that is) he is one of their own, rather than British. It was interesting to see a wreath in the colours of the Argentinian flag at the Zagan memorial last Monday.
Having been to Zagan for the anniversary celebrations last Sunday and Monday I also noticed that the nationality of the ‘Nazis’ is virtually never mentioned these days.
I have just had a chance to visit Meier Motors, keeping company to Jacek Mainka on his trip to fly TE184. The time I spent at Bremgarten airfield was most enjoyable. Achim, Elmar and Maxi, busy men as they are, found enough time to chat and explain things. And Felix is a very patient man! I’d like to take this opportunity to thank everybody for the hospitality and friendliness. I look forward to visiting you again.
no serial numbers are recorded in the log book, just individual airplane codes. (…)
I guess we will never know the serial of the Spit he flew with those markings.
Quite the opposite!
1st, by checking pre-17 September entries for ‘S’ in his log book and cross-checking with the Squadron ORB you might be able to ascertain the serial of the Spitfire he flew on that day (I guess it’s safe to assume it has not been recoded DV-S on 17 September morning, but had flown with these codes for a while before that).
2nd, by checking post-17 September entries for ‘S’ in his log book and cross-checking with the Squadron ORB you might be able to establish the serial of the Spitfire in the photo. W3893 is a candidate, being a W-serialled Spitfire delivered to 129 Sqn in the second half of September 1941, possibly as a replacement for the DV-S damaged on 17 September.
The Spitfire is unlikely to be P8707 anyway, as it has the late style windscreen (P8707, being an early CBAF-built Mk V had the early style windscreen).
Any chance you might post the picture here?
Also, did the Spitfire suffer any damage during the operation on 17 September 1941? P8707 was, apparently, damaged cat. B in combat on that date.
The snag, of course, is that W8707 is not a Spitfire serial number.
There were Spitfire VBs P8707 and W3707, but neither seems to have been used by 129 Sqn around the time.