VoyTech, thanks for that information about Sgt Wares. Good point about him being born in Petersburg. Probably an interesting story leading up to his presence at RAF Hawarden as late as May 44
A story he shared with thousands of Polish servicemen. There was a huge Polish community in Russia at the time he was born, and they mostly moved to Poland after the communist revolution of 1917 or after the Polish-Russian war of 1920/21. I have no details for him, but I presume he lived most of his life in Poland and in 1939 he was taken prisoner by the Soviets. After Hitler invaded the USSR Stalin had some of the Poles released. Most of the servicemen let out of the gulags needed months to recover before they were able to undergo any military training, so Polish airmen who left the USSR during 1941-42 generally didn’t start operational flying until 1944.
but this is thread creep!
Exactly!
Any show with quantities of Spitfires in double figures is very special in my book – I shall certainly be there on both days 🙂
Ditto to both
Is there a XII enthusiast online ?
Mark12?
No, this must be a coincidence…
BTW, good to see you here, Laurent.
One of them originated from Leningrad, but I suspect he was Polish rather than Russian, this being a cover for family back home.
You must mean Sgt Feliks Teofil Wares, killed in Spitfire VA X4173 HX-X on 19 May 1944. Yes, he was Polish, and yes, he was born in Petersburg (it wasn’t called Leningrad until some time after he was born).
What about Leonard B. “Tuck” Smith, a Navy lieutenant on loan to Great Britain who got the US DFC for is part in the hunt for the Bismark.
In May 1941, six months before the U.S. entered the war, Smith was on air patrol near Ireland when he spotted the German pocket battleship Bismarck. His radio message to the British enabled them to locate the Bismarck.
President Roosevelt decided to lend a number of Catalinas to the British through lend-lease, then-Lt. j.g. Smith was sent to Britain to train Royal Air Force pilots.
Smith accompanied the pilots on routine patrols which explains why he was there in the first place.
26th of May 1941, Smith was in a Catalina along with a Royal Air Force pilot and crew. They were flying at an altitude of about 500 feet when Smith first saw the Prinz Eugen and as they got closer the Bismarck fired on them.
Smith got the Distinguished Flying Cross for this and since the U.S. was officially neutral, it was a risky decision to recognize Smith for his participation in a combat operation. Yet, a citation signed by Navy Secretary Frank Knox lauded Smith’s “heroism and extraordinary achievement as a volunteer observer … during an aerial search for the German pocket-battleship Bismarck.”
What happened to neutrality then?
Certainly not my area of research, other than having read some books long time ago. However:
1) I would say it’s rather understandable that the neutral US Navy/USCG/USAAC operated against German ships/submarines because the latter did attack neutral US merchant ships in convoys to Britain. Bismarck etc. were there to destroy convoys from America to Britain. America was sending stuff to Britain in these convoys and not for free. You can compare this with Swiss fighters intercepting aircraft of the fighting sides, and I am sure some of them may have been decorated for bringing down Allied or German aircraft. Neutrality doesn’t mean you cannot protect your own country’s interests.
3) I understand Smith never joined the RAF/Royal Navy, did he?
If you get the Russian and the Pole to join the Forum, they will get to see the build up for the show, add to our ‘little’ community and then join up with some Forumites to watch the display.
Don’t know about the Russian, but the Pole has joined the forum a little while ago.
Should they get a train to Stevenage from Kings Cross, I am happy to give them alift there and back and thy will get to the Red Lion as well.
Do you suggest I should leave my car in London, to have better time at Red Lion?
“Fate is the Hunter” is the best aviation book I’ve ever read.
One title which probably few, if any forumites have ever read is “Up, To the Brightest Star” by Boleslaw Pomian, published in English back in 1946 and to my knowledge not reprinted. If you can get it, read it.
Has anyone mentioned the Ju 52 in “Far Away, So Close”?
If you check those photos I posted in the ‘James Bond film aircraft’ thread, you’ll see that Mark even got special ‘mercenary pilot’ haircut for the film.
Back to Bond films – the L29 which appeared was in ‘Tomorrow Never Dies’. The aircraft was flown by Taff Smith.
There were two L-29s flying in the opening scene, one was flown by Mark Hanna.
The matter of Soviet Spitfires has been discussed at length in Finland. C-F Geust, the co-editor of “Red Stars in the Sky” series of books, and arguably one of the leading authorities on Soviet AF history, says that Soviet Spitfires never saw any action on Finnish, or other northern fronts.
PR Spitfires in RAF and Soviet service saw plenty of action on ‘other northern fronts’, best proved by the fact that quite a few of them have been recovered in recent years in places like Norway.
IIRC the Soviet Spitfires actually saw no action on any front, but on this one I am not sure.
You remember incorrectly. Spitfire Vs of the 57th Guards Regiment saw a lot of action, scoring kills and losing aircraft shot down, during fighting over Kuban Peninsula. This is relatively well covered in various publications, including those in English language (not necessarily by the author you mentioned).
Geust & Co have recently published a two-part book which lists all Finnish aerial victories, checked against Russian archives, and even in these books all “Spitfires” have been corrected, mostly to Yak-7s.
I never said Finns shot down any Spitfires, have I?
Again, personally I do not have any access to Soviet records, but Mr Geust has, and according to his research no Spitfires ever operated in Leningrad area.
I do not have my sources at hand, but I am quite positive that a number of PVO Regiments equipped with Spitfires were based around Leningrad, and I think some were also based near Murmansk. The most reliable published source I can think of is ‘Spitfire International’, I am sure someone here has it at hand to check. I also recall that a victory over a reconnaissance Junkers was claimed by Soviet Spitfires in the area towards the end of the war. I’ll try to dig out more details.
This is a bit off-topic, but Spitfires never fought over Finland, though several Finnish pilots claimed shooting down “Spitfires”. They were probably misidentified Yak-7s.
Do you mean that the Soviet PVO fighters which defended Leningrad towards the end of the war and even shot down a Ju 88 north of the city were Yak-7s misidentified to such a degree that even today’s Russian historians call them “Spitfire IXs”? Or do you have access to detailed operation records of those units and can tell for sure that they never flew combat sorties over Finland?
In any case I believe that PR Spitfires (both RAF and Soviet) operated over Finland.
And we should not forget the Swedish Spitfire 19s violating Finnish airspace during the Cold War on their way to and from some Soviet ports (IIRC one was chased and damaged by MiGs while flying across Finland on the way back from Murmansk).
Coming back to the original quote: “fought on more fronts, in more countries and in more theatres than any other fighter in history” it would be interesting to see a list of the fronts, countries, and theatres where the Hurricane fought and the Spitfire did not.
The British-Italian front in East Africa comes to my mind, the countries of Belgium, Finland and Yugoslavia (assuming we speak of a country’s air force, and not a country’s territory), but I can’t see any theatres.
So no-one’s got a type with broader service?
Is the Spitfire No.2?
Hold it James, you’re a bit too quick for me. I still think that for each country/front/theatre with Hurricanes and without Spitfires it is possible to find a country/front/theatre where the reverse took place. As for the above list I made: in 1940 Belgium had Hurricanes, and they fought over Belgium (fighter Spitfires absent, although RAF PR Spits were there), but in 1944/45 Belgian squadrons had Spitfires and Spitfires fought over Belgium (no Hurricanes); the same applies to Yugoslavia 1941 vs. Yougoslavia post-WWII. Finland never had any Spitfires (although Spitfires fought over Finland), but, for example, the State of Israel never had (never mind used in combat) any Hurricanes. Hurricanes were used in the East African campaign, and Spitfires did not. Spitfires defended Darwin, Hurricanes didn’t. And so on…
I think they probably knocked out a fair few in Normandy when carrying bombs? 😉
Those were Typhoons. The Hurricane was used for mail-delivery in Normandy.
James, I believe Eddie’s ‘they’ were Spitfires.
To clarify my point re the CAM Hurries: this was in response to JDK’s RAF Blenheim comment. Don’t think that Fighter Command used many Blenheims in the Battle of the Atlantic. 😀
They didn’t. I believe Coastal Command did.
How many more aces were created before the first Spitfire ace? Anyone know?
From my memory, the first aces of WWII:
Stanislaw Skalski in PZL P.11
Hannes Gentzen in Bf 109
ah, but we are not talking Jerries…