RyanPipe down oh pious one. Some of us are older than 8 and actually remember (and may even have been badly affected by) what happened last time Labour was in charge. And don’t come at me with the ‘that was New labour’ crap, they only called themselves ‘New Labour’ because the name of ‘Old labour’ stank so bad. Now New Labour’s name stinks too, so they’ve brought Old Labour back out of the washing machine hoping that nobody will notice the residual poo stains that still remain after 38 years.
The DUP’s hand is limited. They know if they push too hard the Tories can call another election and run a proper campaign and leave them with no hand at all.
RyanMy point is that the NI peace deal was always going to be an issue regardless. Making it appear like a concession is left-wing bile.
We all remember the EU saying that the Brexit bill had to be paid before trade negotiations start, well who climbed down on that one? The new negotiator now says that the trade talks will begin after sufficient progress has been achieved with Brexit negotiations and nothing will be agreed until it’s all (Brexit bill and trade deal) agreed.
And how do you see a 5.5% increase in vote share as a failed election? Only your beloved pro-Remain parties lost votes relative to 2015. A failed election is when only 42% of the electorate turn up to vote because that means more than half the country thinks all the choices are a great big steaming pile of ****e.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-election-turnout-idUSKBN1990Q4?il=0
Ryancurrent oil/gas prices are irrelevant for Russian military procurement as the more Russia signs contracts with China and EU. the greater the fear in Middleast of loss of revenues so they deliver much more upfront cash. Putin does not meet so many Arabs without a reason. Ruaf procurement has accelerated. This Tu-160M2 coming sooner. A-100 next year. These are the enablers that will give the capability to wipeout efficiently and effectively Middleast Airforces.
O RLY?
RyanThe Spey was an early turbofan and suffered a considerable drop off in thrust at high speeds and altitudes compared to the J79 which was a turbojet.
Where are you getting the SFC from? MTU lists the SFC as .74 to .81., and as most every source lists it as the dry SFC as .81, that is the static figure. http://www.mtu.de/fileadmin/EN/7_New…ines/EJ200.pdf
The SFC of the M88 is .78, where is this advantage you are pointing out?
https://www.safran-aircraft-engines….t-aircraft/m88
Possibly but the Spey itself was wider than the J79, which meant the fuselage width had to be increased, which increased drag.
It’s the lowest SFC that you take for a comparison. It’s fundamentally obvious from the higher pressure ratio and higher BPR that the efficiency will be higher too, not to mention the variable inlet guide vanes on the HP comp.
And no, almost every source does not say 0.81, most take the lower figure because that’s the one relevant to optimal cruise. The 0.74-0.81 figure pertains to supercruise where the fixed geometry ramp will cause efficiency to vary.
RyanThe timetable was always scheduled for 19th June. Where do these papers get this crap from. And the NI peace deal wasn’t an issue before? Again, where does this left wing bile emanate from?
I’ll judge how the negotiations go based on how much we have to pay and what deal we get. I couldn’t give a rat’s backside over (alleged) point-scoring on other issues.
RyanYou’re the only one claiming that the EJ200 is “definitely, definitely* better”. Reality is much more complex that that, a better engine on paper is not always superior, especially once put inside an airframe. The Spey Phantom is an excellent example.
*that kind of repetition, it sounds like Trump, doesn’t it?
Stop making pathetic excuses. The reason people need to repeat themselves is because French die-hards don’t listen to reason and can never admit anything of theirs is worse than anything of anybody else. Lower SFC, higher TWR.
Don’t try muddy the waters by strawmanning. The Spey gave shorter take-off and better range, it was only at higher speeds it suffered due to being wider, which required an airframe modification for fit. Now the M88 ECO, which is the only M88 close to the EJ200 is also wider than the M88-2 and EJ200, so this comparison backfires on you, especially when the Rafale has a top speed of M1.8 according to Dassault, whereas the Typhoon can do M2+ or even M2.35 by some estimates.
Given that the 60/90KN M88 ECO ended up (barely) lighter than the EJ200 (985kg vs 990kg) so I wouldn’t be so sure…
Stop already. You might as well compare an M53 to a Junkers Juno or a Rafale to an F4 such is the time gap. The XG-40 was under testing as far back as 1986. So wow, after 30 years you have an engine that has roughly the same TWR, but is 2 inches wider and still has higher SFC. Does it even fit in an unmodified Rafale? Meanwhile the XG-40-2 with a TWR of 12:1 existed 25+ years ago. It’s also not really even an M88 derivative given given the size, PR and weight differences. So way to not catch up 30 years late. What does that make the M88 ECO? The aircraft equivalent of the Gripen E?
compactness is about volume, not weight.
So let’s look at the M88 ECO even though it isn’t the same engine as the M88. 787mm diameter vs 737mm. Length 361mm vs 400mm.
M88 ECO
(0.787^2/4) * 3.610 = 0.560m^3
EJ200
(0.737^2/4) * 4.0 = 0.543 m^3
Oh wow, EJ200 wins again. Not to mention that increasing cross-section is very unfavourable in aerodynamics.
As regards weights. Very dubious about believing weights on an engine not in production. People spent a decade believing the Rafale was about 1,000lbs lighter than it actually was, so I’m not going to read anything into a difference of 8.5lbs (based on RR and Snecma figures).
RyanI get the sense from some of the French contributors that Rafale is too good to need replacing within the next 20years.
Surely if the older airframes are not worth upgrading by 2030, something else must replace them? I dont want to get into a debate over whether Rafale can cut it in 20 years time, but I am confused why there is always a lack of enthusiasm from you guys when it comes to future projects?
I had the same reaction to questions about how FCAS was viewed in France (excepting halloweene here), but it seems there is now a grudging acceptance that FCAS might have a role to play…
Just another case of more nations investing in stealth even though it’s a waste of time.
…NOT.:highly_amused:
Ryanso yes, it has one more row and yet IS more compact
but then again, you’d have to understand what’s written before answering in order to say something in relation to the discussion… anyway
The pressure ratio is lower though. Obviously you can build a shorter engine if your PR is 12% lower.
Ryanmeanwhile a white terrorist drives his van into innocent people in Finsbury Park and gets out and shouts “death to all muslims”
Almost immediately there are some sections of the community taking about ‘metal health issues’ yet didn’t do the same when the nut jobs killed people in other parts of the city
Double standards?
Now you know why the Middle East ended up the way it did. Muslims commit terror attacks, and eventually people decide they’ve had enough and tit-for-tat violence ensues.
I didn’t mention a bus?
I’m sure you’re cleverer than that though TT, and understand why that flash headline was used, or was the small print on the other side of the bus that we never saw? Even Farage admitted himself that such a headline was a mistake.
That £350m doesn’t take into account things like higher education subsidies for 127,000 EU students at UK universities and £0.5bn of EU student debt with absentee debtors or a lot of the other things that have now appeared on the Brexit bill. Or how about state pension, healthcare and social care liabilities for 4 million low income EU citizens further down the road.
Ryan“sold a lie disguised as a dream..”
How very true and correct but then, he bet on the undoubted fact that he would never have to actually deliver !
It’s a bit like his supposedly superior response to Glenfell Tower. He never had to respond, that’s the whole point. He’s essentially unemployed, his only job being to criticise the government and walk round hugging people. Meanwhile, the actual government has to organise the response, securing funds for the homeless, accommodation, organise a public enquiry, organise a criminal investigation, review legislation, review other affected buildings and perform the other tasks of government.
RyanDidn’t Saddam Hussein gas a whole bunch of them though?
Ryanwell, an engine that’s half a meter shorter, obviously is more compact…
And an Adour engine is even more compact, what’s your point? Size is only comparable when specified against thrust.
The CMC mateerial stays cold, thats why it emulates con-di. like (something very different), the air intakes used compressed air to emulate a shock cone (another “simple” way)
The air intakes are pitot, hence why top speed is M1.8.
Doesn’t matter jack if the CMC material stays cold when there’s a huge plume of hot gas flying out the back and you’re moving through the air at 600mph.
Please, please, you’re embarrassing yourself. Stop pretending the engine is a whole lot cleverer than it really is. Nobody even claims that the EJ200 is ground-breaking but it is definitely, definitely better than the M88 and one of the reasons the Typhoon scored 9.0 for a/c performance in the Swiss eval and the Rafale only scored 7.0.
RyanIt’s better for Turkey to be outside as it’s budget and military procurement is not constrained. EU money will make Russia formidable military power in Middleast and that in turn will make it deploy even more powerful weopons in Europe
http://russianconstruction.com/news-…s-gazprom.html
Not with oil/gas at current prices.
Ryanno. M88 sfc is lower, sorry. the convergent/divergent effect is obtained using cold CMC outlets. expansion of hot exhaust from hot flaps is further guided by cold parts. emulates con di nozzle, zimpler and far better for IR signature.
Nope, EJ200 0.74lb/lbfhr, M88 0.78lb/lbfhr. Why? EJ200 has higher pressure ratio and higher BPR both of which improve cruise efficiency.
RyanGarbage. The elite were quite happy with endless droves of cheap labour.
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