cruNever mind that the Soviet invasion of Hungary only occurred after massive lynchings by the protestors. I don’t want to justify the invasion, but the Hungarian uprising was a far, far cry from the Prague Spring of 1968, for example
Now,let’s see.US is to blame because invaded Iraq in 2003,but USSR is not to blame because invaded Hungary in 1956,since the Hungarian protestors lynchd a bunch of communist activists (not even Soviets one)… Strange
I think the way forward with nuclear(-ambitious) countries like Iran and even North Korea is to actually absorb them in the international community and treat them with a certain degree of respect
I don’t think that a country will earn respect by having nuclear weapons. Fear, maybe.
Besides, the restraint he showed after continuous provocations by the US (overflights, the Cuban crisis, various international affairs) is remarkable
As remarcable as the building of Berlin wall? As firing on protestors in Poland and DDR? Strange…
The strict security measures to prevent unauthorised launches/firings only became an issue in the 1960s. Before that, the US was just as happy to practically lay nuclear decision-making in the hands of a squadron commander or battalion leader.
Never heard of. As far as I know, inthe US the decision to use nukes was up (as nowadays) to the President. Have you any data on the contrary?
A wonderful example of “Terrorism is in the eye of the beholder.”
I don’t want to arrgue if the Hezb. is a terrorist group or freedomfighters.The fact is that Iran support them, so I wondered about the suyntagm:”classic geopolitical player”
With nuclear weapons, Iran could well hope to be seen as a serious country on a diplomatic level by the US. You can’t deny that the US so far has shown little respect to the country, both during pre-Islamic (the Shah puppet regime) or afterwards.
Before Iran complains by been treated as a “crazy state” it shoud remember the US embassy hostage crisis and the fact that it rejected every attempt made by US to normalise relations. I reiterate the question:when Iran was threatened with an invasion by US? When did US atack Iran?
cruTotally agree with you here… Those burocrats did make a hell of a dangerous bluff. In a sence Khrushchev really deserves a nobel peace prize for stepping down peacefully…
A man that created the Cuban missile crisis, bringing the world close to WWIII and ordered the invasion of Hungary in ’56 deserves the Nobel peace prize in your opinion?
Even if one wants to find a reason for the Russian missiles in Cuba (the fact that US had already nukes in Turkey, and yes they were Jupiter) I am curious to here your argument about the soundness of sending Luna (short range) nuclear missile, with no security protocols, leaved under the will of a regiment commander that could wake-up in the morning with a terrible hang-over after he emptied 2 liter of vodka (or rum) the nigh before and decided that US naval forces, a few miles away are responsible for that. Also if it was sound to send subs to force the USN blocade, subs armed with nuclear torpedo that could be equally launched at the free will of the sub commander.
Meat, Iran is not really as irrational as the media likes to portray her; they are classic geopolitical players and understand every nuance of the game.
A classic geopolitical player supports terrorist organizations (Hezbollah)?
Sometime I find myself admitting that Israel is one of the reason the peace will never come in the Middle East. Also the support the US is offering to Israel impose great costs (9/11 to mention only one). On the other hand, there is no other country in the region (and probably in the world) except Israel that has its very own existence challenged.
What imminent danger exists that would push Iran to such extreme measure of developing nukes? Who is going to invade Iran? What country menace the very existence of Iran? And, please, don’t say US, because is the nukes issue that is making US to harden the tone towards Iran.
cruLet’s see engineering/scientifically what a Flanker goes through when doing a Cobra. IIRC, it starts at level flight, 350kts (or so). ).
Starting a cobra at 350 kts?
cruNowadays, Israel won’t get stuff for free anymore (luckily)
😀 Israel just start to receive 40 advanced F 16I for free
The F-15S is “downgraded” in a special way. The Saudis did not get the software with all functions freed. In case of emergency, those can be “upgraded” in a few hours.
That ashured the Saudis, but I do not know if the Saudis do train all this extra functions at least in the simulator? In reality it will take more time than a few hours to reach that new capabilities
As far as I know, the F 15S do not have all radar ground modes and conformal tank (to make them impossible reaching Israel).
The IDF-AF operates ~ 80 Eagles in 3 sqns of all marks. (2005)
And is also the biggest F 16 operator outside USAF…
cruThe first ‘Flanker-A’ prototypes flew on May 20, 1977 and entered service as the ‘Flanker-B’ in 1984, don’t see where your fat eagle would win any dogs against the best fighter in this times!
And when it was offered for the first time for export? As far as I know the Russians were capable (or wiling) to export the Flanaker in 1991 . The first export contract was for the 18 Sks and the 6 UBKs for China and the first delivery was in 1992. Once again in mid 80′ there was no match for Eagle. Moreover, in term of avionics there was no match until the MKI was introduced. I repeat,it was a war at Saudi’s borders between an mentaly instable dictator and an islamist regime. Would you wait 10 years to receive a fighter in these conditions?
and the breakfast of F15 and tornado wasn’t the first for the rafale, he eated lots of Tomcats and F18 too, my dear!
You didn’t get my point. I was refering to the support the two opposing formation had in the exercise. Let me put it in a different way: if the Rafales were not guided by E 2 and the Eagles were guided by the E 3 (that the Saudis have) the outcome migh have been different, even if Rafale (being 15-20 yeras younger than the F 15) , it is obvious a better plane.
your F15k can’t match modern designed planes, even with new electronics!
it’s an old piece of past, live with it!
Unfortunatleyy F 15 k is not mine. I would love to have one! 🙂 My country is to poor to afford such a plane. The F15 k will belong to SK. SK needed an attack aircraft not a fighter, and this is why the F 15 K was selected. If they wanted a pure fighter the Raf should have been the winner.
What? The Saudis have Eagles? It really is becoming more and more to me a childish competition of “Who’s pocket is deeper, Arabs or Israelis?”
Yes they have F 15 C and F 15 S (a downgraded version of F 15 E). By the way, it is not a metter of “deep pockets” – – Israel received the F 15 for free 😀
crusurely not, in 1981 the russian had budget and best planes in the world!
😮 😮
And what would be the plane that was better than an F 15 C in 1981? The MiG23, MiG 25? 😀 :p Let’s face it in 1981 there was no competition yet for the F 15 C (the Su 27 and MiG 29 become operational latter). There was a war at their doorstep, a war that last for 8 years and cost Iran+Iraq 1,000,000 death. I believe that the Saudis were more than happy to have the eagle in these days.
of course the saudies can have sortie with 8 planes without E3, time to be realist!
I did not say that the Saudis can’t fly without E 3, I asked if they were directed by E 3 in the French-Saudi exercise.Because if they weren’t it is perfectly normal that the French eat them at breakfast.
cruthe US and UK will always swap oil for obsolesent weapons to them,
The first F-15C/D aircraft reached IOC with RSAF units in August of 1981. I doubt that in 1981 an F 15 C was obsolete. In fact it was the best in the world in that moment and for 10-15 years after.
As for the Saudi-French exercise, if the Rafales were directed by E 2, and the F 15+Tornado package was not directed by E 3, the result is predictible: it was absolutely normal that better pilots and newer airplanes prevail.
cruFlex,
Most if not all of the dogfights were over ennemy teritory, so I doubt that there were many MiGs dawned by AAA.
cruThe 9X on the wingtip in the first pic. looks nice…
cruahhh man, at the end of the war were arround 400 f86, those numbers are the average planes in service in that moment, not the total deployed :rolleyes:
http://www.afa.org/magazine/july2003/0703korea.asp
plus +/- 200 planes lost, 600-700 machines 😉 , anyway is clear that the soviets never enjoined an numeric superiority
overG, Please do a search and see how many of the +/- 200 Sabres were lost in a/a, and how many were lost to ground fire, malfunctions etc.
Also, the “new” figure of 379 (345 admitted) losses, does includes the Chinese and NK ones?
cruahhh man, at the end of the war were arround 400 f86, those numbers are the average planes in service in that moment, not the total deployed
OverG, if you quote from an article, it isn’t correct to select only what it is suitable for you. For example, you should mention this, from the same article:the Sabre obtained
792 F-86 victories over MiG-15s, at a return cost of 76 Sabres.
Or,
For the Air Force, the Korean conflict was also the hinge of the jet age. All F-82 Twin Mustangs had been removed from the theater by war’s end. F-51 strength had been cut from 190 to 65. Meanwhile, the number of modern F-86 Sabres in the Far East had gone from zero to 184
.
cruThe AN/ASQ-228 ATFLIR is said to be at least capable of id’ing a 30ft target over 50mls
The LM Sniper XR is in the same league.
There are unfavorable conditions which would greatly reduce this range.
Of course, clouds will reduce the range.
cruI may love the USA as a country but that does’nt mean that I need to love the F-16 and say that it is equal to a fighter with obvious advantages in sensors, range, agility, two pilots, weaponload, TVC, aerodynamics and what not? The only problem is the RCS and the ability to visually acquire the huge planform at ~30 km.
The MKI is a two-seater, but two pilots? 😮 😮 😮 😮
What if one of them wants to go left and the second wants to go right? :p :p :p . I suppose that the higher in rank will prevail… Or may be the most stubborn :p (This might be you Harry) :diablo: :diablo: :diablo:
Or, may be you are speaking about the Su 27 UB?
cruHarry, reading your post I remember the other Hary (HarryB) :dev2:
In the ACIG article, there is no mention that any F15E would have felt “embarassed” when compering their machines with MKI, K,W,Z,Y whatever letter you want.
Also, when quoting the same article from ACIG abvout F 16 you say
The IAF already got a taste of the F-16 at SINDEX. The excercise was’nt as large scale as and the results were’nt as terribly one-sided as Cope-India because the RSAF came fully prepared but at the same time, the F-16 was found to be easy prey
In reality the ACIG says:
At least one Su-30MKI and one Su-30K participated in joint exercise ‘SINDEX’ with the RSAF at Gwalior. Having noted the one-sided result of Cope India, the Singaporeans did their homework and came fully prepared. The result was a more balanced outcome, although one Russian magazine had noted that the F-16 was totally outclassed by the Flanker.
“one Russian magazine” 😀 … no need to say anything else…
cruCorrect me if I’m wrong but considering that the F-14 had 159 confirmed victories with the IRIAF
Give me a break…
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